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[///M3tteo]

Hello everyone!
I would like to buy a set of wheels to use on the track for my E92 M3 and I don't want to use spacers! I was thinking about 18x9.5 ET22 at the front and at the rear with 265/40/18 tires. What do you think...could it be a good idea for car performance? Mount the 2-way KW Clubsport, without spacers say that the wheels will touch the front suspension?
Thank you and sorry for my grammar

[ApexWheels]

18x9.5" ET22 will absolutely work as a rotatable square fitment, and the optimal tire size would be 275/35-18. There are a ton of good extreme summer and r-compound tires available in that size, and they are closer to the correct rolling diameter then 265/35-18 (265/40-18 is a bit too tall for the front of the car and could cause rubbing/damage under suspension compression).

From an aesthetics standpoint, the 18x9.5" ET22 wheel will actually look almost identical to the very popular 18x10" ET25 in terms with how they sit in relation to the front and rear fenders (flushness). They are within 3mm.

The 18x9.5" ET22 will also give you plenty of inner strut clearance for the KW suspension, which are notorious for requiring spacers up front with 10" wheels or wider due to the fact that they take up more room than other suspension designs.

- Ryan

[///M3tteo]

Originally Posted by ApexRaceParts

18x9.5" ET22 will absolutely work as a rotatable square fitment, and the optimal tire size would be 275/35-18. There are a ton of good extreme summer and r-compound tires available in that size, and they are closer to the correct rolling diameter then 265/35-18 (265/40-18 is a bit too tall for the front of the car and could cause rubbing/damage under suspension compression).
From an aesthetics standpoint, the 18x9.5" ET22 wheel will actually look almost identical to the very popular 18x10" ET25 in terms with how they sit in relation to the front and rear fenders (flushness). They are within 3mm.
The 18x9.5" ET22 will also give you plenty of inner strut clearance for the KW suspension, which are notorious for requiring spacers up front with 10" wheels or wider due to the fact that they take up more room than other suspension designs.
- Ryan

Thanks a lot for the answer. I proposed measure 265/40/18 because it is the one written in the vehicle registration document and on the advice of a tire dealer, but if it is better 275/35/18 I will use this measurement!
I was just thinking of buying Apex wheels. I have seen that ARC8 weigh less, but EC7s have more room for BBK. What do you advise?
Thank you,
Matteo

[SYT_Shadow]

Originally Posted by ///M3tteo

Thanks a lot for the answer. I proposed measure 265/40/18 because it is the one written in the vehicle registration document and on the advice of a tire dealer, but if it is better 275/35/18 I will use this measurement!
I was just thinking of buying Apex wheels. I have seen that ARC8 weigh less, but EC7s have more room for BBK. What do you advise?
Thank you,
Matteo

Use the 275/35 tires. They won't be road legal for the car inspections but you can switch to your other tires for that

[ApexWheels]

Originally Posted by ///M3tteo

Thanks a lot for the answer. I proposed measure 265/40/18 because it is the one written in the vehicle registration document and on the advice of a tire dealer, but if it is better 275/35/18 I will use this measurement!
I was just thinking of buying Apex wheels. I have seen that ARC8 weigh less, but EC7s have more room for BBK. What do you advise?
Thank you,
Matteo

Do you have an idea of which BBK do you plan to install?

The ARC-8 design in E9X M3 specifications will actually clear a wide variety of brakes including the StopTech 6 pot 380mm, but there are some limitations due to the barrel construction like a Brembo 6pot 380mm for example. The ARC-8 was our first wheel design, and still the most popular to date. Since then, the barrels on all three of our newer wheel designs (EC-7, SM-10 & FL-5) were specifically developed to clear the largest brakes on the market like the popular Brembo 6 pot 380mm BBK. All four of our wheel designs come in the 18x9.5" ET22 specifications, so you have some options depending on which design you enjoy most.

- Ryan

[///M3tteo]

Originally Posted by ApexRaceParts

Do you have an idea of which BBK do you plan to install?

The ARC-8 design in E9X M3 specifications will actually clear a wide variety of brakes including the StopTech 6 pot 380mm, but there are some limitations due to the barrel construction like a Brembo 6pot 380mm for example. The ARC-8 was our first wheel design, and still the most popular to date. Since then, the barrels on all three of our newer wheel designs (EC-7, SM-10 & FL-5) were specifically developed to clear the largest brakes on the market like the popular Brembo 6 pot 380mm BBK. All four of our wheel designs come in the 18x9.5" ET22 specifications, so you have some options depending on which design you enjoy most.

- Ryan

No, I don't have a precise idea yet but I would like to take the wheel with more space. Where can I buy them at a good price with shipping in Italy?
Thank you

[SYT_Shadow]

Originally Posted by ///M3tteo

No, I don't have a precise idea yet but I would like to take the wheel with more space. Where can I buy them at a good price with shipping in Italy?
Thank you

if you are buying new you should try to get the 10" wheels, maybe 10.5, not 9.5

These are heavy cars and wider wheels provide more support

[ApexWheels]

Originally Posted by ///M3tteo

No, I don't have a precise idea yet but I would like to take the wheel with more space. Where can I buy them at a good price with shipping in Italy?
Thank you

Sent you a PM

Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow

if you are buying new you should try to get the 10" wheels, maybe 10.5, not 9.5

These are heavy cars and wider wheels provide more support

Solid advice, although my understanding is that OP did not want to run spacers. Unless he is open to modifying his KW Clubsport spring configuration to raise the lower spring perch, he won't be able to fit the 18x10" ET25 or 18x10.5" ET22.

- Ryan

[martgsr]

Raisin from the dead.
Is there any problems to run 18x9.5 with a 275 vs a 18x10 ?

[Richneerd]

Originally Posted by martgsr

Raisin from the dead.
Is there any problems to run 18x9.5 with a 275 vs a 18x10 ?

No problems, I run 275 on a 9.5 wheel.

[ApexWheels]

Originally Posted by martgsr

Raisin from the dead.
Is there any problems to run 18x9.5 with a 275 vs a 18x10 ?

Most 275 tires should be just fine on a 9.5" wheel. If the tire model you are considering is known to run wide, you might be better served with a 10" wide wheel.

-Tom

[gugotim]

Originally Posted by ApexWheels

Most 275 tires should be just fine on a 9.5" wheel. If the tire model you are considering is known to run wide, you might be better served with a 10" wide wheel.

-Tom

How about 273/35/18 cup2 on 18x9.5 et22 front and 18x10.5 et22 rear?

I think the ideal size is 265/35/18 front and 285/35/18 rear, but cup2 are not avaliable in these sizes right now.

So I think maybe I can run 275 tires square although 9.5 front and 10.5 rear?

[M3SQRD]

Originally Posted by gugotim

How about 273/35/18 cup2 on 18x9.5 et22 front and 18x10.5 et22 rear?

I think the ideal size is 265/35/18 front and 285/35/18 rear, but cup2 are not avaliable in these sizes right now.

So I think maybe I can run 275 tires square although 9.5 front and 10.5 rear?

Are you talking about street or track setups? 265/285 is not ideal. 285/285 is a much better track setup.

275 on a 10.5 is going to result in excessive stretch of the sidewall. Stretch of the front 275 will be significantly less than the rear 275 which changes the characteristics of a tire. 275 on a 9.5”, 285 on a 10” and 295 on a 10.5” are ideal sizes.

[gugotim]

Originally Posted by M3SQRD

Are you talking about street or track setups? 265/285 is not ideal. 285/285 is a much better track setup.

275 on a 10.5 is going to result in excessive stretch of the sidewall. Stretch of the front 275 will be significantly less than the rear 275 which changes the characteristics of a tire. 275 on a 9.5”, 285 on a 10” and 295 on a 10.5” are ideal sizes.

Thanks for reply.

My requirement are not to use spacers bacause of security and vibrating concern, no fender rolling or something like that.

And I want a setup both for street and track, because when I get kw v4 cs, I want to use the same suspension steup, at least same camber setting to avoid adjusting after track use and back on street.

275 on 9.5+22 is ok，but I see on Apex fitment guide, 295 on 10.5+22 may need fender rolling, which I try to avoid.

[M3SQRD]

Originally Posted by gugotim

Thanks for reply.

My requirement are not to use spacers bacause of security and vibrating concern, no fender rolling or something like that.

And I want a setup both for street and track, because when I get kw v4 cs, I want to use the same suspension steup, at least same camber setting to avoid adjusting after track use and back on street.

275 on 9.5+22 is ok，but I see on Apex fitment guide, 295 on 10.5+22 may need fender rolling, which I try to avoid.

High-quality spacers are not an issue. F82 GT4 factory-built racecars use a 30 mm spacer on the front and the f87 M2 CSR factory-built racecars use 41 mm thick spacers. The spacers are used on the front so 11et30 and 10.5et46 square setups can be used on the GT4 and CSR, respectively.

Additionally, a very large group of people who track their f8x use 15-20 mm thick spacers to be able run a square wheel (10.5et36) and tire setup (295).

You check if spacers sit flush by trying to slide a single sheet of paper between the spacer and wheel & rotor mounting surfaces. Doesn’t slide in = flush spacer.

The front fenders on the e9x M are made of plastic so not easily to fender roll. You’d need to heat the fenders as you try to roll them. I wouldn’t try this!

For the e9x M, 18x10et25 square works with a 5 mm front spacer and no rear spacer (but you could run a 5-10 mm spacer). 285 square tires would be used. Front camber of -3.0 deg to -3.5 deg

Yes, an18x9.5et22 square setup with square 275/35 tires fits with no spacers and is a fairly commonly used setup. I have both setups, as well as a 9.5et22 and 10et17 setup, and the extra 10 mm of tire width really helps with turn-in (plus zero toe or slight toe-out). -3.0 deg of camber should be sufficient but -3.5 deg may be required depending on tire type/brand.

[gugotim]

Originally Posted by M3SQRD

High-quality spacers are not an issue. F82 GT4 factory-built racecars use a 30 mm spacer on the front and the f87 M2 CSR factory-built racecars use 41 mm thick spacers. The spacers are used on the front so 11et30 and 10.5et46 square setups can be used on the GT4 and CSR, respectively.

Additionally, a very large group of people who track their f8x use 15-20 mm thick spacers to be able run a square wheel (10.5et36) and tire setup (295).

You check if spacers sit flush by trying to slide a single sheet of paper between the spacer and wheel & rotor mounting surfaces. Doesn’t slide in = flush spacer.

The front fenders on the e9x M are made of plastic so not easily to fender roll. You’d need to heat the fenders as you try to roll them. I wouldn’t try this!

For the e9x M, 18x10et25 square works with a 5 mm front spacer and no rear spacer (but you could run a 5-10 mm spacer). 285 square tires would be used. Front camber of -3.0 deg to -3.5 deg

Yes, an18x9.5et22 square setup with square 275/35 tires fits with no spacers and is a fairly commonly used setup. I have both setups, as well as a 9.5et22 and 10et17 setup, and the extra 10 mm of tire width really helps with turn-in (plus zero toe or slight toe-out). -3.0 deg of camber should be sufficient but -3.5 deg may be required depending on tire type/brand.

Would -3 or -3.5 front camber make it difficult to drive on street?

And spacers may need long stud head, any downsides to use them on street?

Thanks for your recommendation for track, I think 285 square would be perfect.

But I still need same setting for street use, So I am considering 265/f and 285/r or 295/r.

Would 295/35/18 on 18x10.5+22 run perfect without spacers and fender rolling?

[M3SQRD]

Originally Posted by gugotim

Would -3 or -3.5 front camber make it difficult to drive on street?

And spacers may need long stud head, any downsides to use them on street?

Thanks for your recommendation for track, I think 285 square would be perfect.

But I still need same setting for street use, So I am considering 265/f and 285/r or 295/r.

Would 295/35/18 on 18x10.5+22 run perfect without spacers and fender rolling?

Large negative camber doesn’t wear tires very fast. It’s actually improper toe setting that can destroy a tire in 3-4k miles.

Correct. Longer studs have been designed to better fit with the number of threads on the nuts. There’s no issue if you used a wheel without a thick spacer. Only thing I can think of is aesthetically it might look a little off with long studs sticking out of the wheel but no safety issues.

Are you saying you want to run the same wheels but with different width tires?

10.5et22 would need thicker front spacers and more negative camber to tuck the tire in the wheel well. A 295/35 series tire is going to make things worse and will likely have significant clearance issues with the fender liner as you turn the steering wheel.

[bipp]

Originally Posted by gugotim

Would -3 or -3.5 front camber make it difficult to drive on street?

And spacers may need long stud head, any downsides to use them on street?

Thanks for your recommendation for track, I think 285 square would be perfect.

But I still need same setting for street use, So I am considering 265/f and 285/r or 295/r.

Would 295/35/18 on 18x10.5+22 run perfect without spacers and fender rolling?

-3 camber is fine on the street. I daily on -3F/-2R camber without problem or excessive tire wear. I have 0 toe in the front which helps.

the issue with 295/35/18 is the height of the tire in conjunction with the width. you might find better luck with 295/30/18.

this post (https://www.m3post.com/forums/showpo...&postcount=505) shows 275 squared on 18x10.5 ET20 F, ET25 R. just image the front being a bit more inward and the rear being a bit more outward.

this post (https://www.m3post.com/forums/showpo...39&postcount=8) shows 275 squared on 18x10.5 ET22 F, ET 17 R. I believe the Dunlops run narrow but in short, you should be able to run 18x10.5 ET22 on either F or R.

this post (https://www.m3post.com/forums/showpo...0&postcount=10) shows 295/35/18 rear. it seems that you will not be able to run it on ET22 without additional rear camber.

if you're interested in how it works as a square setup without spacers, my wheels in those sizes should be going on sometime soon and I can take a pic of the result. I'm planning on running 275 squared ECFs, which I believe run a bit wider than PS4S or ECS street tires.

[gugotim]

Originally Posted by bipp

-3 camber is fine on the street. I daily on -3F/-2R camber without problem or excessive tire wear. I have 0 toe in the front which helps.

the issue with 295/35/18 is the height of the tire in conjunction with the width. you might find better luck with 295/30/18.

this post (https://www.m3post.com/forums/showpo...&postcount=505) shows 275 squared on 18x10.5 ET20 F, ET25 R. just image the front being a bit more inward and the rear being a bit more outward.

this post (https://www.m3post.com/forums/showpo...39&postcount=8) shows 275 squared on 18x10.5 ET22 F, ET 17 R. I believe the Dunlops run narrow but in short, you should be able to run 18x10.5 ET22 on either F or R.

this post (https://www.m3post.com/forums/showpo...0&postcount=10) shows 295/35/18 rear. it seems that you will not be able to run it on ET22 without additional rear camber.

if you're interested in how it works as a square setup without spacers, my wheels in those sizes should be going on sometime soon and I can take a pic of the result. I'm planning on running 275 squared ECFs, which I believe run a bit wider than PS4S or ECS street tires.

Thanks for the links. Looking forward to your result.

Looks like 295/30/18 is not ideal for 10.5+22 in the rear as it rubs fender.

So maybe 265/35/18 F and 285/30/18 are final setup for my 9.5+22 and 10.5+22 wheels

[gugotim]

Originally Posted by M3SQRD

Large negative camber doesn’t wear tires very fast. It’s actually improper toe setting that can destroy a tire in 3-4k miles.

Correct. Longer studs have been designed to better fit with the number of threads on the nuts. There’s no issue if you used a wheel without a thick spacer. Only thing I can think of is aesthetically it might look a little off with long studs sticking out of the wheel but no safety issues.

Are you saying you want to run the same wheels but with different width tires?

10.5et22 would need thicker front spacers and more negative camber to tuck the tire in the wheel well. A 295/35 series tire is going to make things worse and will likely have significant clearance issues with the fender liner as you turn the steering wheel.

I'm going to try 265/35/18 and 285/30/18 for my current 9.5+22 and 10.5+22 setup.

And waiting for e90 kw v4 cs is 2 month, long time to wait, never install a aftermarket suspension before.

The rebound of current 14 years suspension is a little weak, although it can pull the car back to the gound quickly after bumps.

Looking forward to what the changes that negative camber and new suspension will bring

[bipp]

Originally Posted by gugotim

I'm going to try 265/35/18 and 285/30/18 for my current 9.5+22 and 10.5+22 setup.

And waiting for e90 kw v4 cs is 2 month, long time to wait, never install a aftermarket suspension before.

The rebound of current 14 years suspension is a little weak, although it can pull the car back to the gound quickly after bumps.

Looking forward to what the changes that negative camber and new suspension will bring

I believe KW might have fitment issues with inner clearance. I heard that it might be the case especially for wider front wheels. I'm not sure if you'll need a spacer in the front to clear it. It might be worth reaching out to Apex since they have a fitment guide to see if they've run across that in the past.