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      04-04-2020, 05:12 PM   #11749
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Originally Posted by tsk94 View Post
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Originally Posted by Shmelgy View Post
True, we just decided to wait rather than play around with a shorter belt. Excited to see if I can actually feel a difference now
I'd be curious to know the HP gain you'd get from the electric pump. I was considering it for my car as well, that setup definitely has it's perks. Also would like to hear if you notice a difference in steering feel and feedback.
These is definitely a noticeable difference in the steering. The weight is now heavier and felt really nice on track. If you're a fan of lighter steering, stay away. Something interesting that I noticed once I started to throw the car into turns and do a little drifting- the steering doesn't want to correct itself as much as before, which made connecting a left turn drift to right turn drift a little tricky. It took a couple drifts to get used to the new characteristics, but you just need to muscle it back to center.

If any of you have had a more pleasant experience with the drifting aspect, I'd love to hear. Regardless, the steering feel on track gets an A+ for sure
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      04-04-2020, 11:38 PM   #11750
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Originally Posted by Shmelgy View Post
These is definitely a noticeable difference in the steering. The weight is now heavier and felt really nice on track. If you're a fan of lighter steering, stay away. Something interesting that I noticed once I started to throw the car into turns and do a little drifting- the steering doesn't want to correct itself as much as before, which made connecting a left turn drift to right turn drift a little tricky. It took a couple drifts to get used to the new characteristics, but you just need to muscle it back to center.

If any of you have had a more pleasant experience with the drifting aspect, I'd love to hear. Regardless, the steering feel on track gets an A+ for sure
can you "tune" the feel at all with these electric kits? is there any kind of restrictor plates? what regulates the power going to the epump?

and could you expand on how the spal fan works? plug and play like oem, or is it just on or off? i read some vague info on the oem fan being variable, but i'm not sure. i know its 850 watts, but not sure about cfm...
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      04-05-2020, 01:40 PM   #11751
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Originally Posted by roastbeef View Post
can you "tune" the feel at all with these electric kits? is there any kind of restrictor plates? what regulates the power going to the epump?

and could you expand on how the spal fan works? plug and play like oem, or is it just on or off? i read some vague info on the oem fan being variable, but i'm not sure. i know its 850 watts, but not sure about cfm...
I modified my power steering system on my E46 M3 to have much heavier steering by installing shims on the relief valve. So the pump relief opens and recircs at a lower pressure which provides less steering boost. Its a great way to keep things easy to repair in the future.
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      04-05-2020, 02:14 PM   #11752
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roastbeef View Post
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These is definitely a noticeable difference in the steering. The weight is now heavier and felt really nice on track. If you're a fan of lighter steering, stay away. Something interesting that I noticed once I started to throw the car into turns and do a little drifting- the steering doesn't want to correct itself as much as before, which made connecting a left turn drift to right turn drift a little tricky. It took a couple drifts to get used to the new characteristics, but you just need to muscle it back to center.

If any of you have had a more pleasant experience with the drifting aspect, I'd love to hear. Regardless, the steering feel on track gets an A+ for sure
can you "tune" the feel at all with these electric kits? is there any kind of restrictor plates? what regulates the power going to the epump?

and could you expand on how the spal fan works? plug and play like oem, or is it just on or off? i read some vague info on the oem fan being variable, but i'm not sure. i know its 850 watts, but not sure about cfm...
I'm not sure about the tuning, I'll have to ask Racewerkz.

The fan is wired to a switch, I turn it on when I start the car, then leave it on for a few minutes after coming off track. Their website says 1298 CFM, but no idea what the stock fan's CFM is
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      04-05-2020, 07:29 PM   #11753
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My quarantine project. I lost my BimmerWorld diffusor at the beginning of the year. This one is made by AJ Hartman. I think it came out pretty good. It add some additional winglets but I am not planning to install yet. My garage is pretty small and I think they'd take out my wife's ankles.
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      04-05-2020, 07:49 PM   #11754
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My quarantine project. I lost my BimmerWorld diffusor at the beginning of the year. This one is made by AJ Hartman. I think it came out pretty good. It add some additional winglets but I am not planning to install yet. My garage is pretty small and I think they'd take out my wife's ankles.
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      04-05-2020, 07:49 PM   #11755
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well, naturally, i have questions. is there any science as to how long to make it? how far does it extend under your car? did you mount it as high as possible (close to the car body), or did you have it at a specific height? how far out can it get before it has a diminishing return or drag?

long and low, or high and short? i'm curious about aero theory here.
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      04-05-2020, 08:09 PM   #11756
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shmelgy View Post
I'm not sure about the tuning, I'll have to ask Racewerkz.

The fan is wired to a switch, I turn it on when I start the car, then leave it on for a few minutes after coming off track. Their website says 1298 CFM, but no idea what the stock fan's CFM is
i see. so i'm assuming since the fan is on your track car, you're not too worried about it being variable or necessarily more powerful, just weight and the ability to cool the car when its off?

i would theorize the oem fan has a high cfm. i have a 3,300 cfm flex-a-lite efan on my desert truck and when that thing powers on, it "feels" or "seems" to be about the same or maybe a little more than our oem fan in the e9x m3. i know its not exactly a scientific observation, but you get the idea.
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      04-05-2020, 08:11 PM   #11757
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roastbeef View Post
well, naturally, i have questions. is there any science as to how long to make it? how far does it extend under your car? did you mount it as high as possible (close to the car body), or did you have it at a specific height?
I am sure there is science on how to do it. You can review wind tunnel data on AJ Hartman's web site to study the results. https://ajhartmanaero.com/blog/project-crusher-part-2/

However, I was limited on how far I could practically move it forward and how high and low I could make it. So basically, I used the underside of my diff as the reference point. The leading edge of the diffusor sits <1" behind the diff and is essentially flush with the bottom of the diff cover. This puts it at about 4" off the ground (as measured from the bottom edge of the tunnel sides) and the trailing edge at 8" beyond the rear most part of the bumper. I chatted a bit with AJ via e-mail and he didn't see any issues with it.

It will be interesting to see how it performs. I am suspecting that I will be able to take out some of the rear wing and still have as much downforce as before.
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      04-05-2020, 09:13 PM   #11758
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ThunderMoose View Post

It will be interesting to see how it performs. I am suspecting that I will be able to take out some of the rear wing and still have as much downforce as before.
Any plans for a flatter floor leading up to the diff?
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      04-05-2020, 09:31 PM   #11759
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Quote:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ThunderMoose View Post

It will be interesting to see how it performs. I am suspecting that I will be able to take out some of the rear wing and still have as much downforce as before.
Any plans for a flatter floor leading up to the diff?
None
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      04-05-2020, 09:35 PM   #11760
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ThunderMoose does drag reduction feel the same as more downforce when it comes to trades like this in terms of cornering?
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      04-05-2020, 11:58 PM   #11761
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None
Will the diffuser help that much alone? I thought you needed to channel the air smootly to the diffuser and then it would work better
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      04-06-2020, 12:36 AM   #11762
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Will the diffuser help that much alone? I thought you needed to channel the air smootly to the diffuser and then it would work better
The AJ Hartmann testing showed that you can still smooth it out with a legitimate diffuser and get substantial results with no flat bottom leading to it.



The data shows 2-3" height being more effective than 1" also. Flat floor numbers are reported to be double what is shown in the graph above.

I'm guessing a negative rake value means sloping down to the rear, as this would make sense to me, slightly squeezing the flow at the entry, cleaning it up, and attaching it to the surface
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      04-06-2020, 02:30 AM   #11763
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roastbeef View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shmelgy View Post
I'm not sure about the tuning, I'll have to ask Racewerkz.

The fan is wired to a switch, I turn it on when I start the car, then leave it on for a few minutes after coming off track. Their website says 1298 CFM, but no idea what the stock fan's CFM is
i see. so i'm assuming since the fan is on your track car, you're not too worried about it being variable or necessarily more powerful, just weight and the ability to cool the car when its off?

i would theorize the oem fan has a high cfm. i have a 3,300 cfm flex-a-lite efan on my desert truck and when that thing powers on, it "feels" or "seems" to be about the same or maybe a little more than our oem fan in the e9x m3. i know its not exactly a scientific observation, but you get the idea.
Yes sir, figured I might as well lighten it up while we were in there doing the power steering pump conversion. It's also quieter than the stock fan, if you care about that sort of thing
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      04-06-2020, 02:50 AM   #11764
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its probably just fine for a track car. keeps the temps down around the pits/paddock. i'd guess the fan doesn't run at all at track speeds.
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      04-06-2020, 08:49 AM   #11765
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Originally Posted by Bartledoo View Post
The fact that most of us are still dumping the heat exchanger flow out of our undertray is really bothersome. I wonder what the lift difference is with it blocked off vs open. That would be a cool test.
Wouldn't that negatively effect cooling?
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      04-06-2020, 09:21 AM   #11766
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roastbeef View Post
ThunderMoose does drag reduction feel the same as more downforce when it comes to trades like this in terms of cornering?
I am not sure I am a good enough to "feel" the difference. When playing with the wing, I'll look at data to see if I pick up top speed. I'll do the same with the diffusor as I have a ton of data with my old setup.

When it comes to cornering it's often very difficult to quantify the difference as so much goes into maximizing corner speed - tires, position, suspension, braking/weight transfer, and aero of course.

That being said, I am certain that the diffusor is in the direction of goodness. It's substantially better that stock rear diffusor and much better in form and theory than the BimmerWorld diffusor I had for last 4+ years.

Will keep you guys posted if I ever get back to track.
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      04-06-2020, 10:22 AM   #11767
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Looks mean Dennis! Can't wait to see it on track
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      04-06-2020, 11:44 AM   #11768
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Quote:
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Wouldn't that negatively effect cooling?
Yep. That's why we still have it open. The exchangers need to be ducted out of the hood for a permanent solution. It could be sealed for a quick test though.
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      04-06-2020, 08:08 PM   #11769
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The data shows 2-3" height being more effective than 1" also. Flat floor numbers are reported to be double what is shown in the graph above.
Well damn. That is quite good!
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      04-06-2020, 08:46 PM   #11770
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the jpmarketing full underbelly diffuser is a pretty good value... $1,850 for the system, but i'm not sure how "plug and play" it is. there is some fit and finish to be done to adapt it to your own car, but much of the work is done.
https://www.jpmarketingllc.com/produ...r-recaro-racer
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