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03-27-2008, 08:22 PM | #177 | |
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I am fine with that.... I bet the cycle you described will be 0.08 seconds or more. Swamp2 should have no qualms about betting the cycle will be 0.08 or less. Swamp2, you in?
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03-27-2008, 11:20 PM | #178 | |
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I should have taken you up on the bet when you keep getting confused between seconds and milliseconds, DCT shifts faster than 0.8 s? I'm getting dangerously close about the 80 ms number, but not yet. I put 100 ms on the table. What happened to your massive flip flop right here in this thread on the decelerative spike on the leading edge of the shift? My 2nd proposed bet? |
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03-28-2008, 12:11 AM | #179 |
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I think in theory it can be .0 seconds but I won't bet. In F1, they are truly seamless meaning that there is just constant acceleration. Maybe they do have both clutches engaged simulataneously. But then again, in F1, they don't give you a 4 year 50,000 mile warrantee so it probably wouldn't make sense to have both clutches engaged simultaneously in our cars.
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03-28-2008, 02:43 AM | #180 |
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F1 cars aren't dual clutch, thought I would say that now before any confusion later on.
T-Bone, When enigma provides a graph on the SMG then I will give you a wager based on what I believe the DCT will look like in comparison and how long the period will be. If swamp won't, I will. |
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03-28-2008, 02:58 AM | #181 |
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Can I get a little off topic and it's my opinion why SMG was a badly executed design.
Would everyone admit here that in anything other than S6 mode the M6 will be beaten by quite a few cars which wouldn't stand a chance when in S6 mode. Surely that is a major failings in it's design when only the roughest of settings give the desired results. Also with the new DCT, only S6 disconnects DSC (not sure of this being right) and in this mode the car has the most surge which will unbalance the chassis in corners when shifting. Feel free to knock my opinions down but I don't agree with what BMW is doing and has done with their semi-automatics. |
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03-28-2008, 03:44 AM | #182 | |
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The time I took the M3 to the drag strip I got the best time in A5, not S6. Another Footie theory up in smoke. The three runs I made varied by only 0.1s (s6,s6,a5)
Now at the track A5 cannot pick the shift points as well as a human so its not a good option. But in a straight line its ability to upshift at the perfect rpm ever time makes it a very good option. SMG also has accelerometers for detecting when the car is turning. Under those conditions it adjusts the way it shifts. You accuse us of bashing a system we are not familiar with, perhaps you should look in the mirror? Quote:
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03-28-2008, 07:35 AM | #183 | |
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I was lead to believe that S6 offered the quickest acceleration followed by S5 and so on and so on. If this is wrong then I stand corrected but if I am correct then I again say that only offering the jerkiest of shift patterns as the one to win races against it's rivals is a badly executed design. |
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03-28-2008, 09:09 AM | #184 |
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If anyone is interested I have similar acceleration trace data to that posted by Enigma..... I have data for the E92 M3 Manual, Golf R32 DSG and M5 SMG (all Euro spec driven by the same driver (me) on the same stretch of road).
I use the Racelogic Performance box with is twice as accurate as the DL1 (10 samples a second Vs 5) |
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03-28-2008, 09:38 AM | #186 | |
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Best regards, south
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03-28-2008, 09:39 AM | #187 |
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03-28-2008, 09:42 AM | #188 | |
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Best regards, south
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03-28-2008, 11:02 AM | #190 | ||
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On cold days I have used S5 insterad of 6 to reduce the dynamic peaks to adjust for the reduced traction of the rear tires. Question. When the actuall DCT results come back and S1-S6 are all faster than a manual car are you going to admit you were wrong all along? There will be differences in acceleration, they will be small, but they will be non-zero. For those competing we still want every non-zero advantage we can get.
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03-28-2008, 11:05 AM | #191 | |
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Keep in mind we are talking about the accelerometers here and not the gps part of the units. 5hz is for the gps part of the DL1 while the accel info is 100hz I found my spare cable last night so I can move it to the BMW for my morning drive.
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03-28-2008, 11:14 AM | #192 | |
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03-28-2008, 11:23 AM | #193 | |
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I have never said that manual will be as quick as DCT, for heaven sake I owned a DSG and know that it's quicker, haven't I said as much on countless occasions. You are missing my point as always, not everyone may want the jerk/surge and if BMW only offer the quickest shift and acceleration with this then in my opinion it's a mistake. Surely someone can have an opinion on this site which may conflict with your own. Clearly you and I will never see eye to eye on most things, possibly it's either an age or culture thing. I don't buy an M3 or any other car to go racing which is clearly top of your list, I buy it to use daily and look for a system and setup which works best in this situation. It the only reason why this time round I decided to go for an M3 as this new model was the first to have desired setup and abilities to match my requirements. I loved DSG from a technology point of view and found it's automatic modes brilliant but as a manual and primarily using the paddles in town I ended up hating the system and craved the connect that the gear stick give. |
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03-28-2008, 12:05 PM | #194 | |
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Then there is the irony of this. You think its a mistake to make the DCT not like DSG. However, you disliked DSG so much you bought a manual. Why would you think its a mistake to not make it like something you hate?
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03-28-2008, 12:08 PM | #195 | |
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Anyways, that the way I read it. I believe that your interpretation is just different. I don't see it as a culture or age thing.
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03-28-2008, 01:00 PM | #196 | |
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What I believe is this surge makes little or no difference to the acceleration times, the only reason for it is to make the acceleration feel quicker, that's not the same things as being faster. You are still not listening, I like the technology, said it numerous times or you are choosing to ignore this fact. The technology wasn't my problem, the paddles are the problem and this only occurred in town driving where you have junctions and roundabouts (something you lot in the States have very little), in this type of driving I found paddles a pain and if you ask a few I think some would agree with me on that, the difference is that they choose to accept this were I didn't. |
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03-28-2008, 01:04 PM | #197 |
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footie,
We are saying that if you design for maximum acceleration then you must have the surge. I don't think you can get around it. It's fairly simple laws of physics. And physics is not just a good idea, it's the law!
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