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      03-24-2008, 01:11 PM   #661
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I guess I was thinking along the lines of an It's a Wonderful Life type ending, where we all march into the dealership with the money and say "here! now give him his car!" hehe With the CEO's also making speeches about how this happened and that it won't happen again, and the whole thing making the national network news. Just seems like that would be the one situation where nobody comes out bitter.
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      03-24-2008, 01:15 PM   #662
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From an Audi Guy

Hey, wanted to spread your story, the link is posted on VW Vortex (very large VW/Audi, et al web site).

Hope you get you car from the scumbag stealership.

Mike

already at three pages...
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=3750872

Last edited by MoreA4; 03-24-2008 at 01:19 PM.. Reason: update
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      03-24-2008, 01:17 PM   #663
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the dealership is certainly at fault here...regardless of their mistake.
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      03-24-2008, 01:20 PM   #664
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MoreA4 View Post
Hey, wanted to spread your story, posted the link on VW Vortex (very large VW/Audi, et al web site).

Hope you get you car from the scumbag stealership.

Mike
Mike,

Good job, forgot about that site...HUGE site...probably a lot of crossover to a lot of multiple makes owners that would now think a second before buying from this dealership.

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      03-24-2008, 01:22 PM   #665
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JudgeHolden View Post
Ok, I apologize if any of this is a rehash, I've only made it to page 25 or so, but:

1) I am a lawyer. Not your lawyer. None of this is legal advice. I am not telling you what to do, yadda yadda yadda (that's legal speak.) I do not even deal with this kind of law. Hell, 5 months from now I will not deal with any kind of law.

2) I posted on bimmer.org about 8-10 years ago. So hello to any refugees from there. It was fun going through all the e46 mule spotting way back when.


I don't see how morals fit into this, although certain people bring them up. I'd say it looks like the following occured:
1) Dealer puts M3 on ebay. Dealer hopes it will get bids from across the nation. Dealer is thinking this will net them a huge profit.
2) Dealer starts auction well below invoice to attract more attention.
3) Dealer screws up. Despite ebay saying, many times, to note the difference between "buy it now" and "reserve," some nitwit screws up. Instead of putting a reserve at their invoice, they do a buy-it-now.
4) They never cancel auction.
5) Doomer bids. Doomer wins. Doomer is happy.
6) Nitwit's boss is not happy. The bid is under the invoice. Dealer stands to lose a few thousand dollars on this.
7) Dealer stands to also lose significantly more in a lost-sale, as the M3 likely would have gone for at least $10k above this price.


Seems like an decent estimate of the facts to me.

Now earlier someone mentioned that this was a unilateral mistake. This is likely true. However, their analysis of a unilateral mistake was wrong. C'mon, even google will tell you what the legal difference between unilateral and bilateral.

So the question might be did the OP have reason to know it was a mistake. One one hand, arguably, as the BIN was ridiculously low. On the other hand, the auction did brag about being ridiculously low. It could go either way. The thing is, the BIN was reasonable. I'll let you draw your conclusions.




Lastly, this is nothing like getting too much change back. Nor is it like a contract bid, which has laws specifically written for those unique circumstances.
This is a dealer hoping to get rich. This is a dealer hoping to put this M3 on ebay and have people in California and people in Massachusetts starting a bidding war and paying far more over the sticker than people in Lincoln, NE would. The dealer screwed up in a way that isn't wholly obvious to the buyer, and in a way they should have noticed and cancelled the auction when they had the chance.
The dealer gambled that the car would fetch a huge amount of money, and it didn't. The gamble did not pay off. The dealer could have hedged this gamble by using a reserve, or by starting the bidding at the lowest they'd be willing to sell.
The dealer didn't. Likely half out of greed and half out of pure stupidity.



Should the law protect you from being too greedy? No.
Should the law protect you from being stupid? Arguably, but in this case, where it was a car dealer that had done ebay auctions before? It would be hard to convince me that they needed protection from their own idiocy.




Again, just a brief analysis. No legal advice, in fact I've tried hard to make no conclusory statements here. This is for discussion only. Solely that, nothing else.

Good rehash of this thread. I think a lot of people are interested in the outcome based solely upon the "stealership" getting what's coming to them.
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      03-24-2008, 01:25 PM   #666
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You should note that this is also on the front page of consumerist.com, a consumer protection blog out of NY with about 2 million readers.
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      03-24-2008, 01:30 PM   #667
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Sorry its taken so long to post a update. The site is very slow (understandably). This morning, BMW of Lincoln has agreed to sell me the car at a price of 60K, with certain conditions. I'll be going over the conditions with the dealership tommorow, and I hope to have everything finalized by tommorow afternoon.

But one thing that I would like to make everyone aware of is, BMW of Lincoln is proactively working to correct the situation that they screwed up. And yes, they screwed up big time, no doubt about that.They are trying to do right, so please don't harass the dealership right now. No phone calls, threats, emails or fake sales calls.

That said, I would just like to take a step back for a moment.
The past few days have been insane. Just thinking about what has transpired, leaves you speechless really. How did this thing go from a M3post.com rant to what it became today? In 3 days, the site amassed
650+ comments and 200,000 page views, with people posting from all around the world, lending their support and help. Thats people I dont even know! Amazing stuff, and probably the coolest thing I have ever
been part of, leveraging the internet in a way that I have never seen before. People I have never met, making calls on my behalf, contacting automotive sites, supplying information, just doing anything and everything possible to help out.

Lets do it again sometime, I hope to be there for someone when they are in need.

Thanks guys, there are good people in this world after all.
I'll post again tommorow.

Regards

Ken



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      03-24-2008, 01:33 PM   #668
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DUDE CONGRATS!!

I was just about to post that your story hit Fark.com:
http://forums.fark.com/cgi/fark/comm...IDLink=3488356
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      03-24-2008, 01:35 PM   #669
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dooma350 View Post
Sorry its taken so long to post a update. The site is very slow (understandably). This morning, BMW of Lincoln has agreed to sell me the car at a price of 60K, with certain conditions. I'll be going over the conditions with the dealership tommorow, and I hope to have everything finalized by tommorow afternoon.

But one thing that I would like to make everyone aware of is, BMW of Lincoln is proactively working to correct the situation that they screwed up. And yes, they screwed up big time, no doubt about that.They are trying to do right, so please don't harass the dealership right now. No phone calls, threats, emails or fake sales calls.

That said, I would just like to take a step back for a moment.
The past few days have been insane. Just thinking about what has transpired, leaves you speechless really. How did this thing go from a M3post.com rant to what it became today? In 3 days, the site amassed
650+ comments and 200,000 page views, with people posting from all around the world, lending their support and help. Thats people I dont even know! Amazing stuff, and probably the coolest thing I have ever
been part of, leveraging the internet in a way that I have never seen before. People I have never met, making calls on my behalf, contacting automotive sites, supplying information, just doing anything and everything possible to help out.

Lets do it again sometime, I hope to be there for someone when they are in need.

Thanks guys, there are good people in this world after all.
I'll post again tommorow.

Regards

Ken



ArtPE
bolmedias14
mkoesel
mooseman
Laszlo
yacoub
JerseyBeemer
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rickc
Xcellere
rainsux
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Technic
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ganjadude
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BlackJetE90
bradbmw
GalaxyGreySi
Last E92 M3
Epacy
drkbrent
normtrum
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Ron21
imafrk
nightkhan
landon305
ShakeR
SteveMondragon
ChrisFastM3
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TheAcAvenger
smmille
lucid
homerjsimp
Avenger
Garissimo
Keto
D0WNxiSH1FT
08fbpSI
MrFoof
Manticorez
JasenWFO
sonofthor
OC kid
MelsM3
max4speed
Samifumi
Fyre Man
djdorifto
mimic
shanks
Adam_B
czechchamp
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BlackStar
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you got the sweetest deal for an m3 ever!
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      03-24-2008, 01:36 PM   #670
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Wow. This is one of THE coolest threads I have ever read. A group of perfect strangers all get together to help a fellow Bimmer lover who got the shaft. I salute you all. I love it when the good guy wins! Well done.
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      03-24-2008, 01:36 PM   #671
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Awesome man, I hope all goes well with the specifications and you get an awesome first rate M3

congrats
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      03-24-2008, 01:37 PM   #672
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One thing I am curious here is what is ebay's response to this. According to their fee page it looks like they are being defrauded out of a $1000 dollar commision here as well as the deal you are losing out on.

http://pages.ebay.com/help/sell/fees.html

Seems like you might be able to get some help here from thier lawyers.

Fee's may also explain why they did not set a reserve price. Setting a reserve appears to incur a non-trivial cost ~700 dollars as opposed to $4 to list the item. If this were a cheap marketing stunt $4 is certainly within thier budget the $700 may not be. If they only had a few auctions running it probably would have been cheaper to cancel an auction that is doing poorly than setting a reserve for all your auctions. I see that as a lot more likely than being ignorant of the whole auction reserve process.
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      03-24-2008, 01:37 PM   #673
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Glad that it worked out and hoping that everything works out tomorrow
You are a one lucky guy to get a hold of new m3 at below invoice price.
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      03-24-2008, 01:38 PM   #674
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I used to practice law- contracts and stuff etc... US laws may differ from here (UK based laws are in effect where i am) but I think the fundamentals of contract law should be same if not logically connected.

What constitutes a contract?
Offer, acceptance of the offer and consideration.
Here, the offer was (in my view) the BIN price (or the reserve price had there been one).
had dooma accepted the BIN price and paid the deposit (the consideration part) a valid and binding contract would have been concluded.

However, dooma's bid was $60k (regardless of the fact that starting price was stated by the dealership). this IMHO was a counter offer that the dealership could accept or reject. In fact, every bid (below BIN/reserve) constitutes a counter-offer.
this is known as "an invitation to treat". ie dealership is saying "make me an offer" if you don't accept my BIN/reserve price.

further, subject to standards that vary from country to country, and state to state, the Header and "No reserve" are Advertising Puffs that ought to be taken with a pinch of salt. There's a saying - Let the Buyer Beware. I believe even eBay's "WIN" notice is merely saying that "you were the highest bidder when the auction ended".

That said, given the level of attention this is receiving + US cyberlaws that i dont know, it won't surprise me if the dealership caves in.

Once again, my caveat here is that US laws may differ from my knowledge of Contract Law.

Food for thought only...

cheers

EDIT - was typing this post when dooma posted the update, so now that it's almost over - who cares?!!! ha ha... Congrats dooma, well done!

Last edited by edlms; 03-24-2008 at 02:08 PM..
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      03-24-2008, 01:39 PM   #675
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Congrats. Can't wait to hear what the "conditions" are!
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      03-24-2008, 01:39 PM   #676
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Dooooomaaaa

I literally check this thread every five minutes..... Congrats on getting the car, we all won with this situation!!!!! Hope this teaches the stealerships a lesson. E90POST FTW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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      03-24-2008, 01:40 PM   #677
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I made my way over from this post on Nebraska board.

This dealership is roughly a 2 miles from my house, and would gladly stop into the dealership to see what's the situation is on this car. I haven't had any personal experience with Husker Auto Group, but I have had to try and buy vehicles from their used lot in the past and had to walk out on them because they are very tough to work with.

If there is anything I could help you with shoot me an email.
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      03-24-2008, 01:42 PM   #678
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dooma350 View Post
Sorry its taken so long to post a update. The site is very slow (understandably). This morning, BMW of Lincoln has agreed to sell me the car at a price of 60K, with certain conditions. I'll be going over the conditions with the dealership tommorow, and I hope to have everything finalized by tommorow afternoon.

But one thing that I would like to make everyone aware of is, BMW of Lincoln is proactively working to correct the situation that they screwed up. And yes, they screwed up big time, no doubt about that.They are trying to do right, so please don't harass the dealership right now. No phone calls, threats, emails or fake sales calls.

That said, I would just like to take a step back for a moment.
The past few days have been insane. Just thinking about what has transpired, leaves you speechless really. How did this thing go from a M3post.com rant to what it became today? In 3 days, the site amassed
650+ comments and 200,000 page views, with people posting from all around the world, lending their support and help. Thats people I dont even know! Amazing stuff, and probably the coolest thing I have ever
been part of, leveraging the internet in a way that I have never seen before. People I have never met, making calls on my behalf, contacting automotive sites, supplying information, just doing anything and everything possible to help out.

Lets do it again sometime, I hope to be there for someone when they are in need.

Thanks guys, there are good people in this world after all.
I'll post again tommorow.

Regards

Ken

Finally chiming in, i've been following for a while now... Although i'm certainly glad they have finally decided to do the right thing, you never know with these guys. These conditions may be absurd, so i really hope you havent agreed to accept whatever conditions they have to add to the "deal" to make things work. The only conditions that should apply are the ones that were stated in the auction. Namely, if the auction didnt state that you have to buy an extended warranty, or paint protection, or lo-jack, then you still shouldn't have to just because they are now finally willing to work with you (if you had plans to get all these anyways, then i guess it really doesn't matter any more)... but whatever it is, if anything, that they're trying to pull, don't let them force you in to any add-ons you have no interest in. Good job in staying persistent and I hope all works out as YOU planned it, and not as they have planned for you.
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      03-24-2008, 01:42 PM   #679
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zerj View Post
One thing I am curious here is what is ebay's response to this. According to their fee page it looks like they are being defrauded out of a $1000 dollar commision here as well as the deal you are losing out on.

http://pages.ebay.com/help/sell/fees.html

Seems like you might be able to get some help here from thier lawyers.

Fee's may also explain why they did not set a reserve price. Setting a reserve appears to incur a non-trivial cost ~700 dollars as opposed to $4 to list the item. If this were a cheap marketing stunt $4 is certainly within thier budget the $700 may not be. If they only had a few auctions running it probably would have been cheaper to cancel an auction that is doing poorly than setting a reserve for all your auctions. I see that as a lot more likely than being ignorant of the whole auction reserve process.
Ebay motor fees are different. Dealership incurred $90 in fees no matter if the car sold for $100 or $100,000.
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      03-24-2008, 01:42 PM   #680
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Ken- Way to go buddy!

Please ensure you have someone (legal background) review any and all stipulations the dealer may require for this deal to close. The last thing you need, are any additional/hidden contigencies upon completion of the sale.

I think it goes w/o saying, but I would also stay clear of servicing your vehicle there; depsite the limited dealers in your area.

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      03-24-2008, 01:42 PM   #681
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Last E92 M3 View Post
Glad that it worked out and hoping that everything works out tomorrow
You are a one lucky guy to get a hold of new m3 at below invoice price.
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He is lucky and he also deserves it. I am very very pleased with the outcome of this story. It is truly amazing. Good luck Dooma, we can't wait to see you take delivery of the car and post a review on it!
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      03-24-2008, 01:44 PM   #682
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congratulations on your sweet deal! but make sure those 'conditions' are fair to you.
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