For those of you who chose E9x M3 over a newer F30 3-series.... why?

[MattM3SVT]

Originally Posted by 6ixSpd

Here we go again... I swear these threads pop up every few months.

The two cars are not even remotely comparable other than the fact they are both 4 wheeled automobiles. Do you also cross shop Crocs and Ferragamos?

This.

How is there even a comparison? Entirely different cars.

[Tewie]

My wife has a loaner F30 right now and all I can say besides the horrible interior and overall feel is this:

[neilum]

Originally Posted by drew4392

After a 6 year hiatus, I'm looking to come back to BMW and can't for the life of me decide what to do. I am hoping some input will help supplement my few quick test drives this past week.

My last BMW was a slightly modded E90 335i. Tune, sways, dampers, springs. That was a fun car.

The F30 seems a bit more numb compared to what I remember-- chassis, wise.

Anyway... what I would really appreciate hearing is why those of you chose an older E9x M3 over a newer 3/4-series.

These are the two cars I am trying to decide between.

The M3 seems to be a bit more visceral. Chassis seems to be more in-line with a sports car vs. a sporty sedan or coupe.

Naysayers might say the F30 with a tune will clean up shop, etc. My complaint about the E90 335i was cooling. Even with a tune, the IATs were awful and after one pull, power was limited.

Thanks in advance! Really appreciate it.

The new non M BMW's are lifeless. I wouldn't recommend one to any enthusiast. Your old E90 335 is way different than the new F30 340's etc. BMW neutered them

The F80 on the other hand is a completely different animal. I would go F80 or look elsewhere.

[Bartledoo]

Originally Posted by tallskinnymatt

This.

How is there even a comparison? Entirely different cars.

If I was somehow "cross-shopping" an F30, it'd be with a 4runner...I'd take the 4runner.

[DSilk]

BMW has destroyed its cars with oppressively numb steering and little differentiation between model series, apart from size. They have detroyed the M division by essentially making them nothing more than option packages on the standard car. The connection to both motorsports and to the enthusiast driver has been lost.

[Ghost_M3]

Originally Posted by Tewie

My wife has a loaner F30 right now and all I can say besides the horrible interior and overall feel, is this:

Enough said..

[SDPLV]

This is like comparing boxers vs. panties.

[SLC Steve]

Originally Posted by SDPLV

This is like comparing boxers vs. panties.

I have read your hyperbole and I am not sure which you are inferring would be the correct choice

I chose the E90 M3 over a 335i because I wanted an M car. If F80 M3 prices were not as high when I was ready to buy I would have been tempted for that.

An M3 is special (even in F8x trim). A 335/340 is not as special.

[SDPLV]

Originally Posted by SLC Steve

I have read your hyperbole and I am not sure which you are inferring would be the correct choice

I chose the E90 M3 over a 335i because I wanted an M car. If F80 M3 prices were not as high when I was ready to buy I would have been tempted for that.

An M3 is special (even in F8x trim). A 335/340 is not as special.

OP is looking at M3 (boxers) vs 3-series (panties). Not M3 vs M3.

Different style and built with different purpose in mind, but can both still cover your junk (Get from Point A to Point B).

[Bemo]

This ought to be an interesting thread. I'm comparing an E92M vs an F80 btw...I won't even get into the regular F(latulence) models...

Let's first address the performance:
1. One car has a large-displacement NA engine, a defining characteristic of the true ///M philosophy, the other gets by on an oh-so-uneventful 3.0L turbo plant, courtesy of the short-sighter bean counters at Munich Headquarters.
2. One car is seemingly less powerful but puts down its power efficiently in a linear acceleration fashion while the other struggles with too much power and the turbo lag that, well obscured as it is, is still there to annoy you.
3. One has a hydraulic steering rack, which is super communicative if a bit numb in the center position, the other feels like a lifeless fish on a good day!
Onto looks next:
1. One has proper round halos, rich in BMW heritage and one of very few defining characteristics, IMHO, of the brand. The other sports some angular wannabes likely courtesy of the Audi boi currently running the M division.
2. A BMW hood shall always end right above the kidney grills, all other lame attempts at styling look like a botched forehead surgery that gives me heartburn. Trust me I have the 535GT to endure, courtesy of my otherwise lovely wife, and keep plenty of heartburn medication on tap, mostly for the looks of that car, not said wife.
Next onto sound:
1. A ///Melodic, addictive symphony or the sound of a tree branch getting caught in my electric lawnmower? Choose wisely, else might as well buy a Tesla!

If you have made it this far, thanks for reading and rest assured that this is not an attempt at creative writing but rather the honest assessment of a car enthusiast with oil coursing through his veins.

Lastly, I have put my money where my mouth is and waiting for my E92 to be delivered this week. A separate thread, with an even greater radical candor if at all possible, shall be initiated shortly after I accept delivery!

Stay tuned. Scratch that.
Stay naturally-aspirated.

Good Day!

Alex

[ChrisSTR]

I am surprised to see people going back to E92 from M4. The V8 is a thing of course, but having better dynamics? Interesting. The current M4 is suppose to have a clearly lighter body, doesn't this feels while driving?

[DSilk]

Originally Posted by ChrisSTR

I am surprised to see people going back to E92 from M4. The V8 is a thing of course, but having better dynamics? Interesting. The current M4 is suppose to have a clearly lighter body, doesn't this feels while driving?

I'm not surprised. The newer car certainly posts better numbers than the e9X, but that is barely half of the story. Enthusiasts don't by the M3 because of its 0 to 60 mph time, its skidpad numbers, or its time around the track. They buy it for the experience of driving a car that engages all of your senses, gives discernable and readable tactile feedback, can be placed where the driver wants to place it consistently, and provides aural feedback that tells him or her that (s)he isn't driving just another hi-performance version of a commuter car.

[Montaver]

The e9x is great but depending on what you compare it to its not particularly 'raw' or 'visceral', it's still heavy car with lots of sound deadening. All the comments saying the f8x is just a souped up commuter are wide of the mark, it's just as bespoke as the e9x in terms of chassis and components. The twin turbo straight six is also very different (more turbos, huge amount of cooling). Styling is subjective. Sound is subjective.


The cars are in very different price points, and both have their merits. Plenty of people have moved from the e9x to the f8x platform and love it. I would agree BMW M are going in the wrong direction, whilst Porsche are going from strength to strength. Shame there is an audi guy at the helm. None of this would stop me owning an f8x M3 however..

[Richbot]

I loved everything about the F80 except the steering. Which is truly awful for a car so good otherwise. The engine is a masterpiece in its own right. Yeah it sounds broken when you start it but so did the E46 everyone wants to pretend was the One True M Car Ever

But they should have just used a detuned s63 imo. I don’t understand why the S55 exists.

[DSilk]

Originally Posted by Richbot

I loved everything about the F80 except the steering. Which is truly awful for a car so good otherwise. The engine is a masterpiece in its own right. Yeah it sounds broken when you start it but so did the E46 everyone wants to pretend was the One True M Car Ever

But they should have just used a detuned s63 imo. I don’t understand why the S55 exists.

The S63 would have made sense for the current M3/M4. If BMW had done that, and returned to hydraulic steering, the new M3/M4 would have been much better, and would have been worthy as a successor to the e9X.

[dmk08]

Originally Posted by DSilk

The S63 would have made sense for the current M3/M4. If BMW had done that, and returned to hydraulic steering, the new M3/M4 would have been much better, and would have been worthy as a successor to the e9X.

Or just a 500hp / 400tq V8 like in the GT350.

[EricSMG]

Originally Posted by Richbot

I loved everything about the F80 except the steering. Which is truly awful for a car so good otherwise. The engine is a masterpiece in its own right. Yeah it sounds broken when you start it but so did the E46 everyone wants to pretend was the One True M Car Ever

But they should have just used a detuned s63 imo. I don’t understand why the S55 exists.

I loved everything about it but the engine - but that's because I drove it with a manual which I thought was poorly mismatched. The DCT wouldn't been very different.

The F8XM is a way way more hardcore M than the E9XM. It's much tighter, more responsive, more grip, better turn in, mega stiff chassis, lighter... just way more sporty feeling in general. It's just a much more serious machine - it's like going from the E36M to the E46M. In fact, it's almost too hardcore for everyday use. Not saying I like it better, just that it's FOR SURE a real M car and suggesting it isn't is ridiculous.

And, honestly - the steering in the E9XM really isn't that great (it's good, not great) - it's highly artificial with its variable weight, something the earlier cars didn't have. The steering in the F8XM is only slightly worse and so I think most comments about it are overblown. Comparing the F8X's steering to the 46M's steering - yes, big step down. Not so from the E9XM.

[neilum]

Originally Posted by EricSMG

I loved everything about it but the engine - but that's because I drove it with a manual which I thought was poorly mismatched. The DCT wouldn't been very different.

The F8XM is a way way more hardcore M than the E9XM. It's much tighter, more responsive, more grip, better turn in, mega stiff chassis, lighter... just way more sporty feeling in general. It's just a much more serious machine - it's like going from the E36M to the E46M. In fact, it's almost too hardcore for everyday use. Not saying I like it better, just that it's FOR SURE a real M car and suggesting it isn't is ridiculous.

And, honestly - the steering in the E9XM really isn't that great (it's good, not great) - it's highly artificial with its variable weight, something the earlier cars didn't have. The steering in the F8XM is only slightly worse and so I think most comments about it are overblown. Comparing the F8X's steering to the 46M's steering - yes, big step down. Not so from the E9XM.

^^ I really have to think most of the people who comment about the F80 don't have a lot of seat time or are just parroting other people's opinions. The steering is truly not that bad and it feels literally nothing like an F30.The F80 also has virtually no turbo lag, truly, the response is really really good. Not sure, out of all the negatives regarding the F80, turbo lag should be the last of your complaints.

Can't put power down? Sure
Sounds meh from outside the car? Sure (also E46 sounds just as bad but somehow that's ok though?)
Active sound could be better? Sure

But overall, I don't get it and I just came here from an F80 after 2.5 yrs of ownership.

They are absolutely a real M car and to imply or say they aren't just sounds foolish.

After plenty of seat time in both, the real problem is the F80's limits are so high, that you need to be going 6/10 or higher to have real fun. Problem is you can't do that on the street. I guarantee 90% of the people hating on the F80 would have an absolute blast on the track where that car is most at home. It's too fast for the street, and going under 6/10 is very meh in that car.

E90 however is oozing with character and other cool feelz and noises that just cruising around is still kind of fun.

I'd say after owning both, I actually miss the F80 a good bit.

F80 makes a better track car by a lot, and as noted is a much faster car. E90 makes a much better street car or car that can be fun just cruising.

Both are seriously good, just different.

Also, the F80 shouldn't be in this discussion though because OP asked for F30 vs E90 comparisons, and the F80 is roughly 80% unique parts to the F30 so it's just night/day different and feels like it too.

[scoale]

Originally Posted by neilum

^^ I really have to think most of the people who comment about the F80 don't have a lot of seat time or are just parroting other people's opinions. The steering is truly not that bad and it feels literally nothing like an F30.The F80 also has virtually no turbo lag, truly, the response is really really good. Not sure, out of all the negatives regarding the F80, turbo lag should be the last of your complaints.

Can't put power down? Sure
Sounds meh from outside the car? Sure (also E46 sounds just as bad but somehow that's ok though?)
Active sound could be better? Sure

But overall, I don't get it and I just came here from an F80 after 2.5 yrs of ownership.

They are absolutely a real M car and to imply or say they aren't just sounds foolish.

After plenty of seat time in both, the real problem is the F80's limits are so high, that you need to be going 6/10 or higher to have real fun. Problem is you can't do that on the street. I guarantee 90% of the people hating on the F80 would have an absolute blast on the track where that car is most at home. It's too fast for the street, and going under 6/10 is very meh in that car.

E90 however is oozing with character and other cool feelz and noises that just cruising around is still kind of fun.

I'd say after owning both, I actually miss the F80 a good bit.

F80 makes a better track car by a lot, and as noted is a much faster car. E90 makes a much better street car or car that can be fun just cruising.

Both are seriously good, just different.

Also, the F80 shouldn't be in this discussion though because OP asked for F30 vs E90 comparisons, and the F80 is roughly 80% unique parts to the F30 so it's just night/day different and feels like it too.

I think your street car versus track car commentary is exactly on point. The E90s limits are a bit lower and thus more entertaining on the street. The hydraulic steering and V8 also make for a more visceral street experience. I do have significant seat time in F80 (don't we all start out wanting to by the latest M) but you simply cannot "wake it up" on the street and the steering and engine do NOT enhance the experience.

Also agree F80 has M chops and that F30 and F80 are not even in same zip code.

[scoale]

Originally Posted by drew4392

After a 6 year hiatus, I'm looking to come back to BMW and can't for the life of me decide what to do. I am hoping some input will help supplement my few quick test drives this past week.

My last BMW was a slightly modded E90 335i. Tune, sways, dampers, springs. That was a fun car.

The F30 seems a bit more numb compared to what I remember-- chassis, wise.

Anyway... what I would really appreciate hearing is why those of you chose an older E9x M3 over a newer 3/4-series.

These are the two cars I am trying to decide between.

The M3 seems to be a bit more visceral. Chassis seems to be more in-line with a sports car vs. a sporty sedan or coupe.

Naysayers might say the F30 with a tune will clean up shop, etc. My complaint about the E90 335i was cooling. Even with a tune, the IATs were awful and after one pull, power was limited.

Thanks in advance! Really appreciate it.

The cars are so different. Truly a case where a few test drives should settle it. Also, if the F30 floats your boat you might want to wait for the G20

[DerEisbaer]

I choose a E92 M3 due to various reasons (sound, looks, heritage, capabilities etc.), but one point not yet mentioned here and applicable for my choice: because of how it will (hopefully) keep it's value, assuming that the only V8 M3 ever made by the factory might be a collector's item at one point.

Other than that it is a true sports-car, it is still damn quick while it's cheaper than the F-Series M3/4s.

A F-Series 335i/435i was on my list as well, but once I got the confirmation for a long-term company loaner car, it was clear that I would choose "the real deal"

[dmk08]

Originally Posted by neilum

^^ I really have to think most of the people who comment about the F80 don't have a lot of seat time or are just parroting other people's opinions. The steering is truly not that bad and it feels literally nothing like an F30.The F80 also has virtually no turbo lag, truly, the response is really really good. Not sure, out of all the negatives regarding the F80, turbo lag should be the last of your complaints.

Can't put power down? Sure
Sounds meh from outside the car? Sure (also E46 sounds just as bad but somehow that's ok though?)
Active sound could be better? Sure

But overall, I don't get it and I just came here from an F80 after 2.5 yrs of ownership.

They are absolutely a real M car and to imply or say they aren't just sounds foolish.

After plenty of seat time in both, the real problem is the F80's limits are so high, that you need to be going 6/10 or higher to have real fun. Problem is you can't do that on the street. I guarantee 90% of the people hating on the F80 would have an absolute blast on the track where that car is most at home. It's too fast for the street, and going under 6/10 is very meh in that car.

E90 however is oozing with character and other cool feelz and noises that just cruising around is still kind of fun.

I'd say after owning both, I actually miss the F80 a good bit.

F80 makes a better track car by a lot, and as noted is a much faster car. E90 makes a much better street car or car that can be fun just cruising.

Both are seriously good, just different.

Also, the F80 shouldn't be in this discussion though because OP asked for F30 vs E90 comparisons, and the F80 is roughly 80% unique parts to the F30 so it's just night/day different and feels like it too.

My comments came from owning a launch F80 for 2 years and then a F82 Comp for almost 2 years. i would say Im pretty informed. I dont miss the F8x at all.

The steering is numb and horrible. Comp or not. The sound is also horrible. Those two items are not really debatable.

Funny thing is a disagree with you totally about thier uses too. The F8x is a better street car due to the torque. E9x is way more fun at the limit so I would prefer it on the track.