|
|
|
Post Reply |
|
Thread Tools | Search this Thread |
12-31-2014, 05:28 PM | #67 | |
Lieutenant Colonel
145
Rep 1,665
Posts |
Quote:
Those rod bolts would have be torqued up right and bearings are still no good yes there not vac ones but you seem to think if there torqued up correct there shouldn't be a problem |
|
Appreciate
0
|
12-31-2014, 05:35 PM | #68 |
Colonel
280
Rep 2,669
Posts
Drives: Goggomobil
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Kangaroo land
|
__________________
|
Appreciate
0
|
12-31-2014, 10:18 PM | #69 |
Lieutenant Colonel
145
Rep 1,665
Posts |
this is not a sign of rod bolts not been torqued up correct its is a sign of not enough bearing clearance
rod bolts were all torqued propely and are just as good if not better then ARP and bearing are WPC treated and failed with a spun bearing with less then 8000kms |
Appreciate
0
|
01-01-2015, 02:32 AM | #72 | |
Lieutenant Colonel
145
Rep 1,665
Posts |
Quote:
These are standard s65 Carrillo rods with Carrillo M9-CARR rod bolts these are Carrillo rods of exact oem s65 replacements not custom sizes or anything This engine spun a WPC treated bearing in less that 8000kms these rod bolts were tightened with Carrillo thread lubricant to exact Carrillo specifications If rod bolts were the problem then this shouldn't have happened but if bearing clearance was the problem then it still could......... Last edited by OM VT3; 01-01-2015 at 03:41 AM.. |
|
Appreciate
0
|
01-01-2015, 05:23 AM | #73 |
Brigadier General
2513
Rep 4,381
Posts |
It would be usual on the engine production line for the OEM TTY rod bolts to be fitted by machine in a tightly controlled process. I guess its possible that something could go wrong for a small number of engines but I would have thought it unlikely that incorrectly torqued bolts could to be the cause of high bearing wear in all cases.
Looking at engines that are working perfectly and taking clearances from them makes far more sense than guessing at a new rod bearing clearance, applying it and waiting for a couple of years to see if the engine holds together. What would also be interesting would be to pull apart some of the high mileage engines (>100,000 miles) that are still running perfectly and see what the rod bearing clearances are in those. Last edited by SenorFunkyPants; 01-01-2015 at 05:31 AM.. |
Appreciate
0
|
01-01-2015, 06:11 AM | #75 | |
Lieutenant Colonel
145
Rep 1,665
Posts |
Quote:
|
|
Appreciate
0
|
01-01-2015, 06:27 AM | #76 |
Brigadier General
2513
Rep 4,381
Posts |
Porsche engines are put together by hand but they still use automatic preset tools that fit TTY bolts.
Last edited by SenorFunkyPants; 01-01-2015 at 06:36 AM.. |
Appreciate
0
|
01-01-2015, 07:32 AM | #77 |
Lieutenant Colonel
145
Rep 1,665
Posts |
|
Appreciate
0
|
01-01-2015, 07:39 AM | #78 |
Lieutenant Colonel
145
Rep 1,665
Posts |
|
Appreciate
0
|
01-01-2015, 08:45 AM | #79 |
Brigadier General
2513
Rep 4,381
Posts |
If they made 66,000 engines at that speed they would need forever!...Maybe they do but somehow I doubt it.
EDIT: I guess they would use something like this: skip to around 3 mins 30 sec They even check the side clearance!! Last edited by SenorFunkyPants; 01-01-2015 at 12:15 PM.. |
Appreciate
0
|
01-01-2015, 09:10 AM | #80 |
Colonel
280
Rep 2,669
Posts
Drives: Goggomobil
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Kangaroo land
|
That video you're referring to is the assembly of a pre-production engine. I thought the same but was corrected by someone here. Do you see 10 different mechanics assembling engines, No. So if it is just one person doing it, and given the number of ///3s sold, like SFP said, they will still be building.
__________________
|
Appreciate
0
|
01-01-2015, 10:28 AM | #81 |
Private
16
Rep 53
Posts |
This is great information from Malek - thank you for providing this to the E9x community.
The OEM bearing wear seen on the engine he tore down at 6k miles was certainly excessive. The fact that it was rebuilt with the same crank, same rods, with bearings with known reduced clearance, and went another 35k miles with virtually no bearing wear is pretty amazing. Wear on the original bearings clearly indicate either under torqued rod bolts, excessive bearing clearance (which we all think is highly unlikely with this engine) or rod bolts that were not able to maintain their clamping force on the bearing. If the engine left the factory with under-torqued bolts than one would think that the engine wouldn't last long. If the issue was that the rod bolts were not able to hold their clamping force on the bearing - then this might only be apparent over time - and would be function of the amount of time the engine spent at higher rpms. With all the evidence we have right now, the lack of/reduction in clamping force over time seems like a very possible cause of the issues with these engines that can take years to manifest. I'd really love to know why BMW specs the 3x torque procedure on these bolts, when leaders in the field like ARP spec only 1 torque procedure per bolt. With the BMW technique, if a bolt is taken marginally beyond the yield point on the first torquing, it will go further and further beyond yield with each subsequent torquing, which could potentially result in a bolt that had been taken beyond yield 3 times by the time the full torquing procedure was complete.... The information on the carrillo rods and bolts is interesting, but introduces a lot of new variables into this particular discussion.
__________________
Current F30 335i Estoril w/MPPK | New E46 M3 GTS4 race car - still getting to know it Past E92 M3 (gone, but not forgotten) | E90 335i | E30 M3 | 3x E53 X5 | 2x Integra GSR | Original SHO |
Appreciate
0
|
01-01-2015, 10:51 AM | #82 | |
Brigadier General
573
Rep 3,741
Posts |
Quote:
|
|
Appreciate
0
|
01-01-2015, 12:55 PM | #83 |
Private
16
Rep 53
Posts |
Agreed. The information on the carrillo rods/bolts in the other car are probably not relevant to this discussion on what Malek has uncovered.
__________________
Current F30 335i Estoril w/MPPK | New E46 M3 GTS4 race car - still getting to know it Past E92 M3 (gone, but not forgotten) | E90 335i | E30 M3 | 3x E53 X5 | 2x Integra GSR | Original SHO |
Appreciate
0
|
01-01-2015, 01:26 PM | #84 |
Lieutenant General
5604
Rep 11,055
Posts |
Plus, how much extrapolation can you do from one example? Some people seem to think you cannot extrapolate much from 100 examples of failed rid bearings.
|
Appreciate
0
|
01-01-2015, 02:06 PM | #85 |
Lieutenant Colonel
145
Rep 1,665
Posts |
99% of every motor has shown premature bearing wear
You guys really think they all didn't have rod bolts torqued correctly? Seems like such a simple fix why didn't bmw do it unless that not really the problem And btw that thing they torque the bolts down is there to eliminate error not create |
Appreciate
0
|
01-01-2015, 02:09 PM | #86 | |
Lieutenant Colonel
145
Rep 1,665
Posts |
Quote:
|
|
Appreciate
0
|
01-01-2015, 02:09 PM | #87 | |
Major General
541
Rep 5,498
Posts |
Quote:
__________________
Instagram: jellismotorwerks |
|
Appreciate
0
|
01-01-2015, 02:15 PM | #88 | |
Brigadier General
573
Rep 3,741
Posts |
Quote:
Take 15 minutes and then let us know which you think is most likely. |
|
Appreciate
1
|
Post Reply |
Bookmarks |
|
|