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11-26-2014, 12:02 PM | #45 |
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Most folks in this thread have brake kits on their cars, and most are happy with what they have, so in this respect I am glad for all of you and am not making any attempt to state which brake kit is better than another.
With that said, I do think that this test leaves some ambiguity on the table, and as always IND's goal is to ensure that as many M3 owners are as educated as possible about the factors involved in modifying their cars. The better informed M3 enthusiasts are, the better it is for everyone in the community. This test seems to focus on two key criteria: stopping distance and pedal feel. Stopping distance is largely a result of compound choice. Put a terrible compound in a good brake system and you'll have a long stopping distance. Put an excellent compound in a terrible brake system, and you'll have an excellent one time stopping distance. Pedal feel is once again largely a result of compound choice. Anyone who has swapped between various pads on their track cars can attest to just how tremendously pedal feel can swing back and forth, depending on what pads you use. Again, because of the vastly dis-similar pads used in this test, this test is more a test of brake pad than it is a test of BBK hardware. I absolutely appreciate the desire to test the kits as-supplied. Different manufacturers make different choices on which pads to supply- some feel that their clients will appreciate the phenomenal performance of the Pagid RS29 as a pre-loaded pad, and will tolerate the noise and dust. Others elect to pre-load their kits with a street oriented pad that is less competent on the track, but has low noise and low dust characteristics. This is more than anything manufacturer preference, and is a tough call to make. Which segment of your consumer base will you choose to please? Brake pads are not a one-size-fits-all solution, and it is exactly for this reason that many of our clients swap between many different pad choices depending on what they are doing with the car that day, no matter which brake kit they have. Although testing the kits as-supplied has some journalistic merit, it is in no way a scientific test of the quality of the hardware itself. This is why I say this test is of no use, as a test of BBK hardware- it's a brake pad test. For a fun experiment, buy the cheapest off-brand brake kit you can from an overseas supplier like XYZ, D2, etc, and drop an Endless sprint pad into the kit. You'll find extremely short stopping distances and excellent pedal feel, in an otherwise terrible package.
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11-26-2014, 12:54 PM | #46 | |
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AP racing lists these pads as their stock options:
http://www.apracing.com/product_deta...thick_pad.aspx |
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11-26-2014, 01:12 PM | #47 |
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If they are to compare them solely based on the over the counter package then they should have included, initial bite, noise, dust and wet/dry characteristics. The pad is the defining awesome sauce with any brake kit to achieve the overall objectives.
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11-26-2014, 02:32 PM | #48 | |||
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In any event, I'm not sure why anyone would give two shits which one provides better out-of-the-box performance when one of the most critical components to performance (pads) is a consumable item that is likely to be upgraded when it needs replacing. A magazine might compare two different cars and conclude that one handles a little better than the other. If the difference was thought to be attributable to the difference in the two cars' tires, I wouldn't let that stop me from buying the car with the worse tires assuming there were other aspects of the car that I liked better and the difference in handling could, in fact, be remedied with better tires. Quote:
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11-26-2014, 03:24 PM | #49 |
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pretty sure the pads that came with my ST were organic or somthing...lmao surprised they did that well.... i had brembos on my e46 m3 and i can say 100% i like the consistency of my ST better on the e92.... only thing i hate is the ST pads sometimes have to be shaved down when it comes to the back plate in order to install correctly... im am surprised that PFC did not finish 1st... and arent they the only kit to use correct hardware in order to prevent kickback.... that is somthing to really think about im not surprised brembo didnt take 1st but i doubt they should be last
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11-26-2014, 03:26 PM | #50 | |
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11-26-2014, 03:30 PM | #51 |
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actually i removed my ST kit and put on a smaller kit then the oem brakes in order to save weight drum brakes in the rear and single piston fronts from a PRIUS!!! super light weight
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11-26-2014, 03:32 PM | #52 |
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11-26-2014, 03:43 PM | #53 |
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You know what? It will decimate all, after, you put about fifteen grand in it or more. If we have to, overnight parts from GERMANY....
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11-26-2014, 04:08 PM | #55 |
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I don't see Brembo bias motivating iND. Could it also be that people who couldn't afford Brembo and had to "settle" for cheaper StopTech want to convince themselves they got a better product too? Your bias argument can go both ways.
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11-26-2014, 04:40 PM | #56 | |
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One time stopping distance blah blah. NONE OF US spend this kind of money for a "one time stopping distance." There is only one way to make the "quality of hardware argument." Put the same pads on all brakes and run 10+ laps on the track at full pace. The purpose built hardware will shine. Simple. ...then run this same test every weekend the whole summer and see which kit is the best quality for such a beating
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11-26-2014, 04:56 PM | #57 | ||
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They ran on a track AND did at least 40 brake tests from 200-0 and 100-0 (20 from each speed). They also did 250-0, but not 100% sure if they did that one 20 times also. It looks like they did exactly what you wanted... |
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11-26-2014, 06:42 PM | #58 |
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IMO, everyone here is missing something quite important. The one thing not being talked about here is the design of the brakes which would have an impact of performance. Did they test the car with a front BBK or a front and rear BBK?
It would make sense that Stoptech would do well because they specifically design their front BBKs to be used with the OE rear brakes. I'm sure ABS would not work as well with the other kits that were optimized as a 4 wheel kit. The stoptech pads are on par with the Brembo pads. Then pagoda need some heat in them to perform optimally...so the crying about the pads is a moot point.
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11-27-2014, 12:04 AM | #59 |
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Nooooo! Brembo pads suck. They are really really really bad. Only suitable for quiet leisurely poser street driving in my experience. Stoptech street performance pads are great.
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11-27-2014, 12:42 AM | #60 | |
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With that said if you say this comparison has limitations in that it was only compared with the pads supplied by the given brand/dealer then the results are valid. I cannot read the article but if there is no section on limitations, this is a shitty experiment. |
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11-27-2014, 04:17 AM | #61 | |
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11-27-2014, 09:16 AM | #62 |
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11-27-2014, 10:24 AM | #63 |
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If they didn't get a ton of heat in the pads then I do think it's a decent comparison. While pads do affect a lot of braking attributes, bite and stopping power shouldn't be too off the norm.
If you're talking about max operating temps then different story. Which I'm pretty sure the test did not if they rated the ST kit/pads so high. If you can keep the temps in check, the ST pads can be an OK track pad. But it's all in German. None of us know anything unless we can read German. I think some people are getting all huffy over a comparison they can't read...vendor included. I CAN'T READ THE REVIEW BUT IT'S ALL WRONG, FALSE AND BLASPHEMOUS!
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11-27-2014, 11:35 AM | #64 | |
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They suck much much much less. |
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11-27-2014, 03:04 PM | #65 |
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11-27-2014, 03:13 PM | #66 |
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i have st and it was my low budget choice. if i had money brembo still wouldnt be in the picture it would be ap or maybe alcon. if i was building a starbucks hard parker with gold calipers then maybe brembo for extra scene points.
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