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01-12-2013, 04:31 AM | #23 |
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Cams.... We like those!
It is a time consuming process to generate a calibration for cams. We have done lots of S62's with schrick cams and The results can be found on m5board. Be prepared to be surprised. We tune a large number of road and race S54's with cams in the UK. S65's follow the exact same principle. We did one car in Dubai some time back but who ever fitted the cams got the cam timing wrong. With cams it is all about fuel and vanos timing. The vanos tuning must be done on a dyno and that's after a well prepared initial calculated profile is created by the tuner. Fuelling for partial load even on a target based dme is not as easy as it sounds. there is the ignition timing and too often tuners use way too much with cams. Finally, adjustment to torque maps, idle speed, fuel enrichment maps etc all need adjusting slightly and then you are done. Datalogging is an absolute must during this type of process. We have a very special s65 engine being delivered to us soon. Cams + modified cylinder heads + custom headers. This is where things start getting real interesting. Cams should be fitted by someone who knows what they are doing and has the correct tools. |
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01-12-2013, 07:30 AM | #24 | |
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Unfortunately for tuners, most tunes are bought based off numbers. Or you have to spend hundreds of hours on the forum convincing people that numbers aren't the most important until you get a loyal following. |
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01-12-2013, 08:50 AM | #25 | |||
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Here's a question for anyone to answer in regards to tuning cams.
As we all know, it's one thing to tune for proper safe and consistent power on the dyno. With remote tuning, how can one address the tuning for part-throttle and daily drivability? With many of the top tuners being all over the world, it's obviously not always feasible to have them physically in the car for tuning. Cams add quite a different dimension in regards to how the engine works, so I assume that drivability has to be greatly considered with tuning. How can this be addressed to assure stock like drivability? Quote:
Custom cams from Schrick sounds all sorts of sexy for any car! Yes...you guys really need some 93 Octane...badly. Quote:
I'll keep an eye out for your upcoming thread on your buddy's car! Quote:
Now in regards to that that special S65 Engine you speak of......please tell me more, especially about those headers....I NEED TO KNOW!
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01-12-2013, 03:34 PM | #26 | |
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So you already have a very very good idea of the optimal cam timing, fuelling and ignition for partial load. For those that have any problems some basic logging under partial load will tell us what we need to do and it's always almost a very small fuelling adjustment that's required. Many of the people going down these routes are also very sensitive about how their cars drive and often giver amazingly good feedback on what exactly THEY want (rather than maybe the way we like a car to feel). Based on that we always go the extra mile and make changes to meet those requirements. Full throttle is very easy, again starts with a good base file which is developed and depending on the fuel and requirements of the customer changes can be made with the dyno as the data logging tool. We have been doing this for a long time now. The amount of M Power cars we have retuned remotely is unreal now and they produce more safe and consistent power than many tuners which could be at the dyno. (Sorry for the boost of our own company there... went a bit over the top!) These days when we are remotely mapping dyno shops allow us to watch the dyno runs via logging into the dyno PC or webcam. We get masses of data logging done by the operators especially those with data links. It is like having the car on your own dyno and being there. Operators are so good sometimes they will listen out for knock for you too and incomplete combustion from the tail pipes. Hope that answers your question. If you want a more detailed description of exactly the strategy we take please PM me. |
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01-12-2013, 04:02 PM | #27 | |
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When you mention partial load, is this where the benefits of having a load bearing dyno start to shine? Or can similar results be achieved even on a DynoJet? I'm so glad my friend decided to get the DynoJet DataLink Module for his dyno. When I start modding the E90 M3, maybe I should take a similar approach to power mods. Buy all the expensive stuff before investing thousands of dollars on an aftermarket muffler, hahahaha.
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01-12-2013, 04:21 PM | #28 |
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Hang on... I just realised it's you... haha... late here!
Basically exactly the same as how I have tuned your car recently! That's the strategy. Partial load mapping on a dyno can only be done with one that can hold load (there are various methods). Some dyno jets can do this. However, for us to go that far we would have never developed the map properly in the first place. We would maybe use it just to get some lambda integrator values or anything related to part throttle fuelling at a certain load point. |
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01-12-2013, 04:30 PM | #29 | |
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I appreciate the detailed response and it's good for everyone else to see how you fine tune things on the dyno remotely. Thanks to a great integration of technology, it's amazing what can be done remotely. The partial load you bring up, always kind of perplexed me. I always read about how many tuners prefer to have Mustang Dynos and DynaPacks for their ability to apply constant load. I personally just never really researched or learned much about it. At any rate, it's nice to know that experienced tuners, like the many on this forum, can tune these cars remotely and rather efficiently! Keep us posted on some upcoming projects, especially that special S65B40!
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01-12-2013, 05:40 PM | #31 |
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Great to get a glimpse of what goes on behind-the-scenes...hahahaha....
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01-12-2013, 09:45 PM | #32 | |
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01-12-2013, 09:48 PM | #33 |
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01-13-2013, 06:05 AM | #35 |
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I feel like I am in high school with the kids who think they are special talking about their private exchanges in front of everyone else so everyone else will know that private exchanges are taking place and that everyone else is excluded.
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01-13-2013, 08:26 AM | #36 | |
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01-13-2013, 08:35 AM | #37 | |
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but 93 in the east coast is 10% ethanol whereas 91 in cali is 0% ethanol. So at the end of the day, they are pretty much equal i could be / probably am completely wrong about this. thats just what i always thought lol |
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01-13-2013, 08:38 AM | #38 |
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How much power do you estimate you can gain from cams and a tune? How much does it typically cost to have cams installed?
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01-13-2013, 08:38 AM | #39 |
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01-13-2013, 10:44 AM | #40 | |||
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Sal shared his technical info in post 26 up above. Quote:
In regards to cost to install...eeep, probably a lot. It took my friends nearly 10 hours to install two cams on a S54B32, so I imagine it to be nearly double that for the S65B40. Quote:
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01-13-2013, 11:00 AM | #41 | |
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Damn that's gotta be a lot of $$$ in labor. Easy decision for me...
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01-13-2013, 12:28 PM | #42 |
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I think 93 octane is 93 octane even if it has 10% ethanol. Remember that ethanol is not necessarily bad. If you have 85% ethanol, your octane is much higher than if you have 85% gasoline. The problem is that it takes a lot more ethanol to make the same power so if you run E85, you may need larger injectors. Also the ideal AFR for ethanol is different from gasoline, so the tune should be adjusted. In the 10% range, I don't think it matters much. I'd rather run east coast 93 than west coast 91.
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01-14-2013, 05:34 AM | #43 |
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I cant wait to get 280/288 cams too Flip
But first SS Stepped V1 with catless pipes and retune on dynapack by EVOLVE
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01-14-2013, 07:55 AM | #44 |
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Or you can just find 93 non-ethanol fuel like I do around here
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