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02-24-2012, 08:18 AM | #23 | |
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E92 M3 SG DCT - AA Filter, Verstraβe Paddles, ECS SS, MH race stud, Stoptech BBK, MR Exhaust,RE Pulley, BPM Tune,Euro bumper and GTS lip, Euro MDM & DCT, KW CS, Recaro PP, TMS Soild Diff Mounts, MRF solid subframe mounts, GTS aero, RPM track built motor.
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02-24-2012, 08:25 AM | #24 | |
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Anyway...OP, so far I have 38,000 miles and my repair history so far consists of only 1 front strut, 2 front wheel bearings, and the little button panel next to the shifter cause the EDC led was flickering.
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02-24-2012, 12:05 PM | #25 |
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Slightly off-topic here:
I really don't think driving 17k a year is unreasonable. If we're talking about a vintage exotic car, then it makes sense to preserve it. That's not the case here; it's a mass produced BMW 3 series. Sure gas price and repair bills add up, but I already knew that coming in. To me the price is worth it. I'd hate to not able to dd my M3 and drive something boring to work every day. Every time I touch the steering wheel of a Prius, I die a little bit inside. As one previous poster said, I'm getting the car for myself, not to sell it to the next guy. If I really care about resale value, there are a lot more sensible options out there. I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree. |
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02-24-2012, 12:09 PM | #26 |
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I drive new cars every 3 yrs or so and I buy the cars out right so obtaining max re-sale value is key for me..I dont see the upside to aimlessly rack up miles on my M3...and to be honest ..driving daily beaters makes me appreciate the M3 that much more when I am in it..to each their own
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02-24-2012, 02:04 PM | #27 |
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I put approx. 21k miles on my M3 every year.. had it about two years so far. I drive it all the time because I love being in my car, especially after mods. I plan to drive the car until it dies. Also, get as much use out of it as you can, because in a few years, the new one comes out, then another, then another, and the small percentage you lose in residual value, I feel, is negligible. Just my two cents, and as tibra1 said, "To each their own." Just sharing my thoughts
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02-24-2012, 05:43 PM | #29 | |
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E92 M3 SG DCT - AA Filter, Verstraβe Paddles, ECS SS, MH race stud, Stoptech BBK, MR Exhaust,RE Pulley, BPM Tune,Euro bumper and GTS lip, Euro MDM & DCT, KW CS, Recaro PP, TMS Soild Diff Mounts, MRF solid subframe mounts, GTS aero, RPM track built motor.
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02-24-2012, 06:30 PM | #30 | |
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I drive my M3 about 17k miles per year and enjoy every time I get in the car, traffic or not. I have a higher-mileage lease and put down little upfront. I make my payments without taking any money out of my investments in the market to do so. The money you paid up front, which you presumably took out of the market (unless, even worse, you were all cash), went out the window while the World and S&P equity indices returned nicely positive. Maybe you should think this over. 60k miles without a single problem. Last edited by MatthewDavid; 02-24-2012 at 06:59 PM.. Reason: Because this is hilarious |
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02-24-2012, 07:17 PM | #31 |
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I've had mine for exactly 1 year and I just hit 24k.
If you keep it nice and sheltered you're just saving it for the next guy after you. Just like horses - they're meant to run and be used. If you don't they have an expiration date as well. Nothing lasts forever. Use it or lose it. |
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02-24-2012, 07:58 PM | #32 | |
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With regards to money up front..calculate how much you will spend over the life of a lease and how much you will get back ($0)....So to pay in full and enjoy the car reasonably for a few yrs; sell it near end of warranty and get into something new; while recouping 80 -85% of its value makes perfect sense to me..The purchase of a car will in no way impact my investment portfolio and my method in the long run minimizes exposure due to depreciation.. Besides the amount of capital gains you would earn on $75K over say 3 yrs in the market is nothing compared to how much out of pocket you would be on a lease..so your point about keeping money in the market is moot. In summary..yeah think it over |
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02-24-2012, 08:04 PM | #33 | |
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02-24-2012, 08:07 PM | #34 | |
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I do finance and investments for a living..so consider I may know what I am talking about..be happy to crunch the numbers for you.. |
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02-24-2012, 08:16 PM | #35 | |
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Different people have different needs. Some people always need to drive a car that is 3 years or less and don't mind the additional costs so a lease makes more sense as they wrap up the additional expense as "part of the business" - for example salesmen, real estate brokers to name a few. There are others who plan on keeping the car close to a decade so a lease doesn't make sense at all. It's a fact that the day you drive a brand new car off the lot the value drops like a rock - more than any period of time in the lifetime of the car. New cars are never "investments." Thats one of the many variables one has to personally consider before making a decision. Just because you don't PREFER to drive a car until it's wheels falls off doesn't mean it isn't any more valid to someone else. It's "finance" people like you with self centered "tunnel vision" that make me sick to my stomach. |
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02-24-2012, 08:19 PM | #36 | |
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http://www.hyundaiusa.com/assurance/ |
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02-24-2012, 08:43 PM | #37 |
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By the way, I thought it over as you requested. My math skills are a little rusty, so we'll use round numbers and the S&P 500 Index ETF SPY to make it easy.
The car at time of delivery was $70k. Lease payments were about $36k including tax plus the $3k down. So, I spent $39k. We’ll ignore tires, gas, licensing, etc., because those are costs we both had to pay regardless. Over the three years I had the car, my $70k not spent would have returned the following: $70k * SPY's return in 2009 (27.86%) = $19,502 gain. My $70k is now worth $89,502 $89,502 * SPY's return in 2010 (11.8%) = $10,561 gain. My $70k is now worth $100,063 $100,063 * SPY's return in 2011 (-0.08%) =$80 loss. My $70k is now worth $99,982 Total profit, about $30k. Subtract out my lease cost of $39k, and I paid about $9k for “The Ultimate Driving Machine” over three years. Let's see, you paid $70k and recouped a very, very generous 85%, despite residuals after three years being more like 50% (hey don’t believe me, believe AutoTrader.com). That means you lost $10,500 ($70k * 15%), or about the same as me. But, don't forget you paid full sales tax, which I think is 4.5%. So, let’s see, 4.5% sales tax = $3,150 plus the $10,500 = $13,650. So, $4k more than me? Now, had you sold the car for a more realistic $40k (haggle with me on this if you want, it doesn’t matter), which is still generous but realistic, you lost $30k plus your tax of $3,150, which is $33k and change, or $20k more than me. But, let’s say I made those lease payments up front (which I didn’t) and they didn’t compound as above, making me half the profit. I’d miss out on $16k in profit or so. So, I lose my original $9k plus $16K = $25k. Even in this scenario you paid $8k more. Ok, ok, to be even more fair, let’s say having the M3 got me some serious ass over three years. That’d eat up my $8k and then some, but at least I’d have a smile on my face and “The Ultimate Driving Machine”. Ouch. |
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02-24-2012, 08:49 PM | #38 |
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Thats just the point I am not worried about resale
Last edited by tibra1; 02-24-2012 at 09:10 PM.. |
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02-24-2012, 08:51 PM | #39 | |
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By all means, check me if you'd like. My math is above. I could be wildly, incredibly, hideously wrong. And if I'm wrong, I'm wrong and I'll admit it. But if you're wrong, quit your day job. Last edited by MatthewDavid; 02-24-2012 at 08:53 PM.. Reason: Typo |
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02-24-2012, 08:56 PM | #40 | |
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02-24-2012, 09:01 PM | #41 | ||
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Ok first of all those returns you listed are not likely to re-occur. Assume an average return compounded for 3 yrs on $70K is more likely in the $10-$15K range $40K on your lease thats a complete sunk cost When you are doing an all cash deal on a car your negotiating power is greater..and I actually got my 2011 at wholesale $54K w 4K miles (Sticker MSRP $69k) Worst case scenario depreciation for 3yrs...say 30% (and this is really alot I expect to recoupe alot more back due to condition and mileage)..I estimate after 3 yrs I can get 40-$45K no problem So at the end of three yrs..you spent $40K as you can see I estimated cap gains on $70K ..in reality it should be $54K b/c this is what I spent...still I will leave it at $70K..so if you calculate all: I lost ~$10-15K in depreciation and lost another $10K in cap gains..so say $20 -25K total You spent $40K on you lease And I dont have to worry about end of lease date or answering to a finance company..I sell the car at my lesiure. It really all boils down to having the capital reserves..nothing wrong with it if you dont and choose to go another route my only point was to state my method saves money in the long run Last edited by tibra1; 02-24-2012 at 09:33 PM.. |
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02-24-2012, 09:09 PM | #42 |
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OP - congrats and everything I've read in consumer reports, c/d long term reviews, and other 3rd party reports say this M3 is as solid as a rock reliable. If you got a CPO one, even better. Mine's got 34k and going strong. Maintenance is key, and keeping up with oil changes and the like will ensure she runs like a champ into her 100s...Happy MMming!
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02-24-2012, 09:10 PM | #43 |
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Ofcourse I do...Its okay...amazing the hate here.. yes I have another car a 93 eagle talon..that I work on myself..simple basic 5speed that makes 30mpg..bought for $2500 10 yrs ago..parts are practically free and cosmetically I could give a shit about it.
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02-24-2012, 09:23 PM | #44 | |
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Unlikely to reoccur or not, it's reality for me. Sweet! Alright, I'll play ball anyway. Lets assume the annualized rate of return for the S&P is around 8%. And no, I'm not paying capital gains because I'm not selling (You're not selling, right? The market is up, you see). And, yes, my lease payments are "sunk" just like your depreciation ($10k). Ok, ok - scenario one, I pay $40k and make $18k in the market (on $70k), so I lose $22k, Scenario two, I pay $40k and make only $10k in the market (on $36k), so I lose $30k. Ouch and OUCH, right? I lose $10k and $20k more than you, over three years, right? Well, then I paid $500-800/month to rent my mode of transportation, which I needed anyway, when people are paying much, much more to finance. And its an M3, which is a pretty awesome rental if you ask me (but you're not asking me, you're the expert). And, yeah, you should be concerned about hate. You just tried to compare apples to apples when really you're an orange because you bought at a significant discount. So, you cannot compare yourself to others that cannot buy wholesale, which most cannot, especially when you're trying to make the argument your method is better financially (sure, only to you, but you didn't disclose that). Clients get sold and burned by managers like you (?!) promising false, hypothetical returns all the time. No wonder this dude hates you: Last edited by MatthewDavid; 02-24-2012 at 09:36 PM.. Reason: Ha including the other dude's quote |
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