How many of you are running catless with no tune?

[Zaw]

I know you can get more power with a tune but $100 - $200 simple primary cat delete from a local shop is too tempting. It seems like the best HP/$ ratio. How many has gone this route? What are your thoughts?

[MK599]

Catless no tune here. Been meaning to get one but vendors throw me all sorts of numbers that Ive been too busy to deal with it. Car runs fine, why change it?

[pbonsalb]

Definitely the best $ per hp ratio. Even the tuners agree that no tune is necessary since the engine runs off WB02 full time that target the AFR. Since a tune adds a little power to even a stock car, it will add a little power to a catless car. You can always add one down the road.

Pulley and air filter are the next two bang for the buck mods. No tune required for them, either. But again, without a tune, you are leaving a little power on the table.

The biggest complaint people have is that the CEL will be triggered for primary cat failure based on feedback from the rear 02. Evolve sells a tune that will allow the car to pass OBD2 inspection and keep the CEL off. Others sell tunes that will not pass OBD2 inspection but keep the CEL off. Akra sells a Delete-R that will simply clear the code automatically so the CEL is not triggered. Sometimes you can find a used one from someone who upgraded to a tune.

[Rekrul]

Originally Posted by pbonsalb

Definitely the best $ per hp ratio. Even the tuners agree that no tune is necessary since the engine runs off WB02 full time that target the AFR. Since a tune adds a little power to even a stock car, it will add a little power to a catless car. You can always add one down the road.

Pulley and air filter are the next two bang for the buck mods. No tune required for them, either. But again, without a tune, you are leaving a little power on the table.

The biggest complaint people have is that the CEL will be triggered for primary cat failure based on feedback from the rear 02. Evolve sells a tune that will allow the car to pass OBD2 inspection and keep the CEL off. Others sell tunes that will not pass OBD2 inspection but keep the CEL off. Akra sells a Delete-R that will simply clear the code automatically so the CEL is not triggered. Sometimes you can find a used one from someone who upgraded to a tune.

Does a air filter really add any power?

[In Extremis]

I'm going to this weekend while waiting on my procede, doesn't seem to be a problem.

[Alex07M3]

Originally Posted by MK599

Catless no tune here. Been meaning to get one but vendors throw me all sorts of numbers that Ive been too busy to deal with it. Car runs fine, why change it?

for HPs !

[Boostin FD]

I got no tune... I'm using Akra Delete-R... so i'm good.

[1SICKM]

On my E90 I had no tune for about a month when I went catless (Gintani). I noticed a slight loss of torque immediately. After the tune, sharper engine repsonse, torque was back and no CEL.

[Zaw]

has the lost of low end torque documented on a dyno? most of what i heard is only on butt dynos.

[pbonsalb]

My butt dyno registers a low end torque gain.

[edwinm3]

Originally Posted by pbonsalb

My butt dyno registers a low end torque gain.

I doubt you gained low end torque with a catless set up and no tune

[m3an]

Originally Posted by 1SICKM

On my E90 I had no tune for about a month when I went catless (Gintani). I noticed a slight loss of torque immediately. After the tune, sharper engine repsonse, torque was back and no CEL.

I ran catless on my gintani race and the power was incredible, w/ no tune. Very noticeable over stock. Sounded like a nascar too!

[SchnellM3]

Originally Posted by MK599

Catless no tune here. Been meaning to get one but vendors throw me all sorts of numbers that Ive been too busy to deal with it. Car runs fine, why change it?

+1


Just haven't had time, when I decide on one someone else seems to tweak theirs a little... I was set on doing it after they did the remote tuning but still haven't gotten around to it... Within the next year I'll do it though

[Rekrul]

Didn't have a torque dip with my Dinan Mid pipe.. more power everywhere. No tune.

[aus]

There have been dyno's showing low end torque loss with castles X-pipes.

[Grail05]

Yes torque sucks when removing cat... But doesnt bother me

[REP1KRR]

I noticed very little performance change when going catless (Challenge Race). The CES drove me CRAZY, but got used to it after a while. THEN, decided to get Evolve's NA tune.., and WOW! Huge change! Amazing difference. I feel like I captured ALL the benefit from the simple mods I had done (AA filter, AA pulley, and Challenge Race). Very, VERY worth the $ spent. I feel you don't get a ton of advantage from your performance mods without a tune. That's my story anyway.

[Zaw]

Originally Posted by aus

There have been dyno's showing low end torque loss with castles X-pipes.

I ran a quick search for the loss in low end torque and could not find any dyno charts. Of cause, all of the vendor dyno charts show gains as you would expect. Can you show were I can find this dyno information.

[tonymac1]

innotech F1 full system here. No CEL, no tune. But plan to get a tune soon.

[aus]

Originally Posted by Zaw

I ran a quick search for the loss in low end torque and could not find any dyno charts. Of cause, all of the vendor dyno charts show gains as you would expect. Can you show were I can find this dyno information.

You have to look at the curves in the 2000 RPM range to see the dip.
I can't remember who posted the dyno's but it was on a few with Akra. They all did better up top for sure.

.

[Rekrul]

Originally Posted by aus

You have to look at the curves in the 2000 RPM range to see the dip.
I can't remember who posted the dyno's but it was on a few with Akra. They all did better up top for sure.

.

I think they were all with the AKRA mid pipe. Which makes me wonder if it just their mid pipe design, as it is different than many others.Like I said, my Dinan gained everywhere.

[AlteredBe4st]

I ran catless without a tune for about two weeks and had no problem and my cel did not trigger but after I got my tune I felt at first it was a waist of money because I did not feel any gains right away but I must say after a few miles of driving for the tune to work in the car feels much stronger all around, pulls very hard at top end and a noticeable feel in low end torque, you also get the added benefit of removing top speed governor and cold start cycle which drove me crazy starting the car in the garage just too loud, nice aggressive tone but too loud for early morning starts. One will be fine without a tune but why not take advantage of the extra hp.