Crank, no start

[darren p.]

Cross posting in here to get more technically minded opinions.

Crank, no start
Had an issue on Sunday where car started fine, I was doing some diagnostic work with ISTA/INPA and left it running while I was doing work as I haven't been driving the car much and was concerned about battery draining (could not plug in a power source). Got to a point where I needed to restart the car and when I went to start it back up, the car cranked and fired up but quickly stalled and seemed like the starter was still engaged until I hit the start/stop button.

Tried a couple more times and it would crank but not fire and same thing, sounded like starter was still engaged until I hit the button again.

I checked voltage and it was good, hooked up a jump pack just in case and same issue.

No CEL but checked codes and was getting 2AFE - DME: Voltage at Terminal 87 open circuit. I checked all fuses and made sure connector on top left of fuse box was fully seated, all seemed good. I jiggled the fuse box a little not expecting much and it started up no problem, turned it off and started it again, all good.

Went to take the car out yesterday and something similar happened though it seemed like it was trying to fire but the starter would still make that sound until I hit the button. Came back to it a little while later and it did the same thing. Connected jump pack again even though voltage was okay. Tried again and it started and didn't get the starter sound but was running rough and eventually went into limp mode. It stalled shortly after. Checked codes and got a whole bunch:

27E7 DME: Limp-home operation, 100% el. fuel pump activation
2AFE DME: Voltage at terminal 87 Value below threshold
2B14 DME: Throttle-valve actuator initialisation
2B2A DME: Idle actuator, initialization
A125 CAS: incorrect or implausible signal from engine management

Car just had the positive battery cable recall done and when I went to pick it up the battery was dead, needed a jump at the dealership to start and the amp seems to be dead also (no audio - have another thread for that).

I'm going to try my AGM battery, have a LiPo battery in there now but I don't think its a battery issue as the voltage seemed okay and I also had the jump pack connected.

I've never had any starting issues like this and it just seems like too much of a coincidence that I had the positive cable recall done and now I'm having what seems like battery issues.

I reached out to the Service Advisor about the amp the day after I picked the car up and he was responsive at first but stopped responding, need to follow up but would like to hear opinions from the experts on here.

Thank you for your attention to this matter!

[DrFerry]

I would be extremely suspicious about having battery issues after The Stealer has done the battery cable recall. The recall involves disconnecting the original cable from the fusebox, cutting the old positive battery cable to remove the old ring connector and splicing in a new section of battery cable with a silver ring connector. This is done to remove and mitigate any corrosion. IF the cable splice is not done correctly (read immaculately) I would suspect this as the culprit. Moreover, at the other end on the negative cable is the Intelligent Battery Sensor (IBS) connector that doesn't seem to like voltage spikes. A bad positive connection behaves similar to a bad ground. When the stater 'asks' for maximum volts and current any extra resistance will cause a voltage drop. Take a video of what is happening and show it to the Service Advisor. Once he has evidence of what's happening he should act to remedy the situation or at least check the work that was performed by them. Put a volt meter across the terminals under the hood and record the voltage during a start cycle to see if it drops significantly. This is just what I would do.
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[darren p.]

Thank you for explaining this, I wasn't totally sure what was done for the recall. I would have imagined they have done this many times and know how to properly splice a cable. I want to swap my AGM battery back in to see if that helps and to take video of the start cycle while my multimeter is connected to the terminals under the hood but its going to have to wait until the Canadian wildfire smoke disipates, not trying to be outside more than I have to.

I did reach back out to the service advisor, the service manager called me this afternoon. I missed the call but called back shortly and got his voicemail so stay tuned...

[darren p.]

Just to confirm it isn't my LiPo battery, I swapped in the AGM with the same results.

I also took video of the start cycle with my multimeter attatched to the under hood terminals. Voltage was 12.3 at rest and dropped to 10.2-10.9 while cranking.

I knocked around the fuse box a bit and pushed the connector on the top left of the fuse box again and on the next start, it ran but quickly died so it really seams like there is a loose connection somewhere.

Reached back out to the service manager earlier but got voicemail again, about to call again.

[DrFerry]

Originally Posted by darren p.

Just to confirm it isn't my LiPo battery, I swapped in the AGM with the same results. I also took video of the start cycle with my multimeter attatched to the under hood terminals. Voltage was 12.3 at rest and dropped to 10.2-10.9 while cranking. I knocked around the fuse box a bit and pushed the connector on the top left of the fuse box again and on the next start, it ran but quickly died so it really seams like there is a loose connection somewhere. Reached back out to the service manager earlier but got voicemail again, about to call again.

The surface charge voltage on a fully charged OEM AGM battery is about 13.0V to 13.4V at rest. 12.3V shows the battery is partially depleted and may not start the vehicle. A loose connection is very probable but the issue could also just be a bad or depleted AGM battery OR both.
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[darren p.]

Originally Posted by DrFerry

The surface charge voltage on a fully charged OEM AGM battery is about 13.0V to 13.4V at rest. 12.3V shows the battery is partially depleted and may not start the vehicle. A loose connection is very probable but the issue could also just be a bad or depleted AGM battery OR both.
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I do think the AGM battery is partially depleted, it would only charge to 72% on my charger before it went into trickle/maintain mode. the LiPo battery was showinig 13.1 when I checked it out of the car. I'd be curious what the voltage shows on the AGM when the car is asleep.

I found this thread - https://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1356590 Sounds awfully familiar and proves it is not outside the realm of possibilities the dealer tech did not follow proper procedure. I'm going to pull things out tomorrow and check over the wiring.

I spoke to the service manger of the dealership, he told me to bring the car back on Monday and they will go over the work and make sure it was done correctly, if it wasn't, they will fix it and let me know what was wrong, if it all checks out, they said they would give me a courtesy diagnosis which I told him I thought was fair...but I don't want to wait until monday and if I see something obvious, if I can, I'll just fix it myself.

[DrFerry]

Originally Posted by darren p.

I do think the AGM battery is partially depleted, it would only charge to 72% on my charger before it went into trickle/maintain mode. the LiPo battery was showinig 13.1 when I checked it out of the car. I'd be curious what the voltage shows on the AGM when the car is asleep.

I found this thread - https://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1356590 Sounds awfully familiar and proves it is not outside the realm of possibilities the dealer tech did not follow proper procedure. I'm going to pull things out tomorrow and check over the wiring.

I spoke to the service manger of the dealership, he told me to bring the car back on Monday and they will go over the work and make sure it was done correctly, if it wasn't, they will fix it and let me know what was wrong, if it all checks out, they said they would give me a courtesy diagnosis which I told him I thought was fair...but I don't want to wait until monday and if I see something obvious, if I can, I'll just fix it myself.

That's a very good plan and great Sherlock Holmes information. The thread you linked above also has a "solved" thread... at the link below. Good luck and please report back and let us all know the rest of the story... Read the DIY thread, see the photos and videos.
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https://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?p=21323080
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[darren p.]

Thank you, and yes, I also read the DIY. I said to myself, "this has got to be it!". I was wrong, sort of.

Problem solved!



After using the DIY, I pulled the fuse box...the B+ cable and connector looked good, however, there were 2 (Grey and Blue) connectors on the back of the fuse box that were not fully seated. I pushed them in until I heard that beautful "click", its so rewarding. A 30A fuse popped out when I put the blue connector back in, I wasn't sure where it came from, but I'll figure it out later, its either audio amp or engine related. Screwed the fuse box back in and reconnected anything I disconnected. Put the freshly charged (tested 14.1v) LiPo battery back in and was ready for the moment of truth.

I turned on accessories and I had sound again! Went to start it and it fired right up but was running rough. Figured out the 30A fuse came from position 40, will have to look up what that is but when I tried starting it again, she fired up, was rough for a couple seconds but corrected and was runnging well, in cold start mode (flashed to stock for state inspection).

So glad I figured this out, first and last time I bring my car to the dealer!

[DrFerry]

darren p. Well done and thanks for following up and posting the solution. If I were you I would speak to the Stealer Service Manager and let him know about the loose multi-plugs you found. Shoddy and sloppy workmanship should be reported IMO in oder to save the next unsuspecting E9X M3 owner from similar perils. Good job and I hope everything clears up and works out well from this point forward. PS: Whenever your car is parked it should be connected to the battery tender.

[darren p.]

Thank you and you're welcome, I can't stand it when I find a thread that doesn't explain the resolution to the problem so I always follow up, good or bad.

I did send the service advisor and manager a sharply worded email (though not disrespectful) regarding the lack of oversight when it was obvious there was a problem when the technician finished the recall services. To be fair, they didn't know the car wasn't starting but the message on the dash and the lack of any audio from the sound system would have been obvious. I still struggle with how they could have given the car back to me like that. I feel like this will fall on deaf ears though, I mean this experience is inline with the stories I've heard about taking the car to the dealership over the years.

As much as I'd like to, I can't keep the car on a battery tender, no outlets in the parking structure of my building.

Unfortunately, I'm not completely out of the woods yet. I only let the car idle for about 10 minutes after getting the fuse box sorted out and all was fine but when I took it out for a drive the following day, the CEL came on and I started getting all kinds of warnings about the EDC, DSC malfunction and a bunch of others and just as I got home, the wipers started. I orginally thought it was another battery issue but the battery is testing 13.4v.

When I scanned it, I had a ton of CAN bus communication errors with various modules so it seems I messed something up in the process, ugh!

A3AC - Message (distance travelled, 0x1A6) faulty, receiver KOMBI, transmitter DSC
A3AD - Message (engine data, 0x1D0) faulty, receiver KOMBI, transmitter DME-DDE
A3AE - Message (engine speed, 0x0AA) faulty, receiver KOMBI, transmitter DME-DDE
A3AF - Message (nominal road speed value, 0x200) faulty, receiver KOMBI, transmitter DME-DDE
A3B9 - Sporadic fault (failure, DSC message, 0x19E) No repair measures available, receiver KOMBI, transmitter DSC
A550 - Message (speed, 0x1A0) faulty, receiver KOMBI, transmitter DSC
CDA0 - Message error (terminal status, 0x130), DME receiver, CAS transmitter
CDA8 - Message (status, instrument cluster 0x1B4) faulty, receiver DME, transmitter KOMBI
D35A - No message (CAS 0x304), receiver DSC, transmitter CAS
D747 - EDC: PT-CAN communication fault
E594 - No message (steering angle), receiver FRM, transmitter SZL/LWS/DSC
E717 - Message fault (engine data, 0x1D0) IHKA receiver, DME-DDE transmitter
E71A - Message fault (torque 3, 0xAA), IHKA receiver, DME-DDE transmitter
E71C - Message fault (speed, 0x1A0), IHKA receiver, DSC transmitter

Any ideas??? The JBE was removed in the process of pulling the fusebox but was put back correctly, or so I thought.

[DrFerry]

Originally Posted by darren p.

Thank you and you're welcome, I can't stand it when I find a thread that doesn't explain the resolution to the problem so I always follow up, good or bad.

I did send the service advisor and manager a sharply worded email (though not disrespectful) regarding the lack of oversight when it was obvious there was a problem when the technician finished the recall services. To be fair, they didn't know the car wasn't starting but the message on the dash and the lack of any audio from the sound system would have been obvious. I still struggle with how they could have given the car back to me like that. I feel like this will fall on deaf ears though, I mean this experience is inline with the stories I've heard about taking the car to the dealership over the years.

As much as I'd like to, I can't keep the car on a battery tender, no outlets in the parking structure of my building.

Unfortunately, I'm not completely out of the woods yet. I only let the car idle for about 10 minutes after getting the fuse box sorted out and all was fine but when I took it out for a drive the following day, the CEL came on and I started getting all kinds of warnings about the EDC, DSC malfunction and a bunch of others and just as I got home, the wipers started. I orginally thought it was another battery issue but the battery is testing 13.4v.

When I scanned it, I had a ton of CAN bus communication errors with various modules so it seems I messed something up in the process, ugh!

A3AC - Message (distance travelled, 0x1A6) faulty, receiver KOMBI, transmitter DSC
A3AD - Message (engine data, 0x1D0) faulty, receiver KOMBI, transmitter DME-DDE
A3AE - Message (engine speed, 0x0AA) faulty, receiver KOMBI, transmitter DME-DDE
A3AF - Message (nominal road speed value, 0x200) faulty, receiver KOMBI, transmitter DME-DDE
A3B9 - Sporadic fault (failure, DSC message, 0x19E) No repair measures available, receiver KOMBI, transmitter DSC
A550 - Message (speed, 0x1A0) faulty, receiver KOMBI, transmitter DSC
CDA0 - Message error (terminal status, 0x130), DME receiver, CAS transmitter
CDA8 - Message (status, instrument cluster 0x1B4) faulty, receiver DME, transmitter KOMBI
D35A - No message (CAS 0x304), receiver DSC, transmitter CAS
D747 - EDC: PT-CAN communication fault
E594 - No message (steering angle), receiver FRM, transmitter SZL/LWS/DSC
E717 - Message fault (engine data, 0x1D0) IHKA receiver, DME-DDE transmitter
E71A - Message fault (torque 3, 0xAA), IHKA receiver, DME-DDE transmitter
E71C - Message fault (speed, 0x1A0), IHKA receiver, DSC transmitter

Any ideas??? The JBE was removed in the process of pulling the fusebox but was put back correctly, or so I thought.

Check the IBS (Intelligent Battery Sensor) blue connector plug is properly seated. Check the alternator output when the engine is running (it should be about 13.4 to 14V output and see the Intelligent Alternator Control manual attached). Then clear the codes, take the car for a longer drive e.g. 30 miles or more and see if the codes resurface. If they do, the list of codes smell like a bad ground, or possibly the battery cable recall splice still not thoroughly debugged yet. Be patient. A list of codes like that is typically caused by low voltage gremlins while driving. There is a way to monitor the voltage when driving via a hidden menu accessed through the BC column stalk. I don't recall how to access that hidden menu but YouTube will. Sorry you're having so much trouble. It's a long shot but the non OEM battery could also be contributing to the problem(s).

Edited: Added video and IBS/IGR Manual attachment.
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[darren p.]

Thanks, I did clear the codes when I scanned them yesterday and took it out and the same codes and symptoms came back just driving out of my parking structure so turned around as I didn't want to get stuck. I was getting between 14.1-14.5 when the car was running (via the hidden menu). I will check the blue plug is properly seated on the IBS, pretty sure it is.

I'm fairly certain I messed something up when removing the JBE module, it is likely a CAN communication issue and will take a closer look, doubt it is a bad ground or a battery issue though as nothing like this has happened before I took down the fuse box on Saturday although it has happened in the past when the battery needed replacing a few years ago.

It seems all the modules are working but messages to and from are not happening. Car starts and runs fine, all lights work, dash works, hvac works. I noticed my V2 M Performance steering wheel was not turning on and figured it was a bad connection to the CAN bus, red and red/blue wires/connector loop to the blue connector of the JBE, I unplugged the connector and plugged back in and the wheel powered up on next start up but the problems were still there. Hopefully I didn't brick my JBE.

Thanks for your words of encouragement, I was bummed last night when I scanned it and saw all those codes and more so after I cleared them and went for another drive and the same thing happened but I'm quite tenacious so I'm sure I'll get it figured out, just wish I can spend more time on it instead of working my day job!

[darren p.]

Update, it was a CAN bus communication issue. I reseated both the black and blue connectors on the JBE, its very possible I didn't have them fully seated, seems you gotta push them in with some force, pulling the locking arm alone didn't work for me as I reseated them both last night as well.

Car is running well again, hopefully it stays that way! Now I can get my state inspection done and get my BW X-pipe and Epic tune back on!