Initial Bilstein Clubsport Suspension review

[Mvez]

Originally Posted by former 240 s14

I had the Clubsports on my E90 M, loved them and appreciated the build quality. There were light years away from the MCS I run on my current E92. If the car I had didn't already have the MCS's I would of definately considered buying these again or going JRZ. I have been disappointed in the rebuild cycle for MCS. I did try the JRZ's at NJMP on two different E46's last year and was very happy with the characteristics.

Rubin

The other little detail that MCS doesn't like to talk about is their 2WNR setup can't be "revalved", and the upper limit for that shock is ~900lbs. It's a one size-fits-all valve setup. You have to go to their 3/4-way remotes to be able to get a valving and shock dyno graph for rates higher than 900lbs.

I learned that when in the market for shocks for my C8 Z07. I'm not sure what they have going on, but I've been seeing issues with customers in C8 Corvette land too, as even their 3/4-way remotes can't control very mild spring rates either. I opted for Ohlins TTX on my C8, and love them, but those cars are A-arm, not struts, so inverted monotubes aren't needed.

I only use Ohlins and Bilstein. Just my preference, but the big shock companies just have the resources to properly engineer a shock for the car/loads they see. Perfect example, a 981/718 GT4/RS is a dual strut car, front and rear. Porsche specifically supplies these cars as OE with an aluminum inverted monotube up front, and a STEEL body inverted monotube rear because of the loads they see at both ends of the chassis. Bilstein, Ohlins R&T, and Manthey (KW) all supply the same shock design for their aftermarket kits for this car. I would not put anything else on this car for track use. Will a non-inverted shock work? Sure, but the lateral loads it puts on the shaft are such that the shock will not perform as well, or as long as an inverted in this case.

MCS makes a great product, and I really do like how they drive on the C8's I've driven with them, but for the strut cars, I much prefer the Bilstein inverted monotube, and being able to use whatever spring rate I want, and have it valved to match. When I get a shock dyno from PSI, I know it's properly valved and never have to second guess it.

[former 240 s14]

Originally Posted by Mvez

The other little detail that MCS doesn't like to talk about is their 2WNR setup can't be "revalved", and the upper limit for that shock is ~900lbs. It's a one size-fits-all valve setup. You have to go to their 3/4-way remotes to be able to get a valving and shock dyno graph for rates higher than 900lbs.

Believe it or not (I used to love that show and adore the museums) they have figured out to do it now. I just got my 2WNR revalved for 700f 1000r shocks. Cost is about $360. They didn't bring it up when I started the process, luckily I am friends with Patrick at Bimmerworld and he told me about it and got me connected to the right people.

Haven't had the ability to test yet as there is a giant hole in my engine bay currently but will be here this spring if all goes to plan.

Rubin

[Mvez]

Originally Posted by former 240 s14

Believe it or not (I used to love that show and adore the museums) they have figured out to do it now. I just got my 2WNR revalved for 700f 1000r shocks. Cost is about $360. They didn't bring it up when I started the process, luckily I am friends with Patrick at Bimmerworld and he told me about it and got me connected to the right people.

Haven't had the ability to test yet as there is a giant hole in my engine bay currently but will be here this spring if all goes to plan.

Rubin

That's good to know, glad you found somebody. MCS uses orifices instead of traditional shim-stacks to control oil flow.

[tsk94]

MCS has done a great job marketing, particularly to the BMW crowd. I'm sure it helps that BW pushes them so hard, given James Clay has ownership in MCS too...

They make a good product, but in the world of true motorsports shocks, they are nothing particularly special... As Mvez noted, the fact they don't offer an inverted strut option immediately eliminates them from consideration on my end for a serious track or race application.

[M3SQRD]

Originally Posted by tsk94

MCS has done a great job marketing, particularly to the BMW crowd. I'm sure it helps that BW pushes them so hard, given James Clay has ownership in MCS too...

They make a good product, but in the world of true motorsports shocks, they are nothing particularly special... As Mvez noted, the fact they don't offer an inverted strut option immediately eliminates them from consideration on my end for a serious track or race application.

MCS, Moton and JRZ do not offer inverted front struts and they are professional-level race winning dampers. Inverted struts require more maintenance to minimize the possibility of stiction, typically have higher friction as well as an overall weight penalty (maybe a little bit of unsprung mass reduction). Lateral bending stiffness really depends on how the strut shaft reacts the moment internally which isn’t as well supported internally for some inverted designs. Differential radial/lateral stiffness of an inverted strut can significantly affect overall lateral bending stiffness. There are f82 GT4 running MCS 3WR dampers that outperform the homologamated Ohlins TTX dampers. I am biased towards MCS but I don’t believe they outperform all other dampers. The Intrax 4-way (not a standard 4-way adjustable damper - LSC, HSC, R and raise/lower entire C damping curve) Race dampers with anti-roll control (ARC) are phenomenal.

[M3SQRD]

Originally Posted by Mvez

For example, the rear shocks in the new E92 M3 EVO R kit are to be inverted, which is a really nice feature. Bilstein takes forever to release things, as they are a huge OEM type company, but the product is top notch.

What is an “inverted” rear damper/shock? Bilstein rear race dampers don’t use an “inverted” design. Rear dampers do not react lateral bending moments so why create a heavier rear damper with its body on the outside?

[tsk94]

Originally Posted by M3SQRD

MCS, Moton and JRZ do not offer inverted front struts and they are professional-level race winning dampers. Inverted struts require more maintenance to minimize the possibility of stiction, typically have higher friction as well as an overall weight penalty (maybe a little bit of unsprung mass reduction). Lateral bending stiffness really depends on how the strut shaft reacts the moment internally which isn’t as well supported internally for some inverted designs. Differential radial/lateral stiffness of an inverted strut can significantly affect overall lateral bending stiffness. There are f82 GT4 running MCS 3WR dampers that outperform the homologamated Ohlins TTX dampers. I am biased towards MCS but I don’t believe they outperform all other dampers. The Intrax 4-way (not a standard 4-way adjustable damper - LSC, HSC, R and raise/lower entire C damping curve) Race dampers with anti-roll control (ARC) are phenomenal.

I’m not downplaying MCS’s performance at all—this is more about personal preference. If you, or someone else, don’t feel an inverted strut is a priority, then MCS works great. I’ve driven or owned cars with most of the options you mention, and they all make a quality product.

A bit of a tangent, but some background may help.

I have a good friend who experienced an MCS front shock failure (sheared shaft) that resulted in a serious crash. Around the same time, I had heard of two or three other similar incidents. This was quite a few years ago, but it pushed me to look for an alternative using an inverted strut design.

I ended up going with KW, and in 2018 we began working together to develop a custom kit for my E92 race car build. At the time, KW had not yet done a fully custom inverted monotube front and true rear coilover motorsport kit for these cars. Their only option was the original “Competition” kit, which was essentially a revalved Clubsport with stiffer springs, still using a twin-tube design front and rear.

We collaborated to develop the kit to my specifications—working out damper lengths and stroke based on the ride height and tire sizes I wanted to run, testing valving profiles and various spring rate combinations, and dialing in details like remote reservoir line lengths to suit my mounting locations (with the shortest lines possible). The original kit was a 2-way setup, though it could be configured as a 3-way if desired.

That kit eventually became the V4 Racing, which can now be special-ordered through KW Motorsport. Unless you request specific changes, the kit you’d receive today is essentially the one I helped develop. Quite a few have been sold over the years, and the feedback has been excellent.

Building on the E92 design, I worked with KW again in 2021 to develop an F8X M3/M4 kit for an M4 build. The kits are very similar overall, though the rear shock design differs slightly compared to the E92. I’m now back in an E92 and on my third set of KW’s—currently running V4 Racing 3-ways—and I’m still very happy with them.

I’ve had friends who run MCS on their BMWs drive my cars, and the feedback on the KW dampers is always extremely positive. To be fair, their cars on MCS drive very well too. In terms of damping quality and body control, you really can’t go wrong with Moton, JRZ’s motorsport line, Penske, Öhlins TTX, KW’s racing line, or MCS. I haven’t had a chance to try Intrax yet, but I’d love to.

All that said, I have no idea whether MCS has changed their design since those failures years ago—they very well may have. Regardless, that type of failure is almost impossible with an inverted setup, and I value that extra peace of mind.

[Mvez]

Yikes, that's some scary stuff, and exactly why I use inverted for every strut car I have. Perhaps MCS increased their shaft diameter, which is a common marketing point for non-inverted struts to satisfy potential customers, and agree they make a good product, it's just not for me with strut cars.

I was working with KW Motorsport for my E30 M3 Group-N track build as well, they offer an inverted monotube setup with the hard to find, all new front spindles.
I ultimately went with the original Bilstein motorsport shocks though, as I wanted to keep it very period correct with the motorsport valved inverted shocks from Bilstein, but KW was nice to deal with regardless. Their willingness to build whatever I wanted was nice, whether it be V4 or V5.

Another data point, all the "motorsport" shocks from KW for the 997 and 991 Cup/GT3 Strut-based race cars had both aluminum and "endurance" steel body options for their inverted monotubes.
The fact they offered steel bodies tells you something as well.

For A-arm cars I think MCS is a great option, along with all the current generation of solid piston, twin tubes from Ohlins TTX and KW. But I also love monotube shocks and their firm low speed chassis support (a typical trait of Bilstein). Nice to have options!

Originally Posted by tsk94

I’m not downplaying MCS’s performance at all—this is more about personal preference. If you, or someone else, don’t feel an inverted strut is a priority, then MCS works great. I’ve driven or owned cars with most of the options you mention, and they all make a quality product.

A bit of a tangent, but some background may help.

I have a good friend who experienced an MCS front shock failure (sheared shaft) that resulted in a serious crash. Around the same time, I had heard of two or three other similar incidents. This was quite a few years ago, but it pushed me to look for an alternative using an inverted strut design.

I ended up going with KW, and in 2018 we began working together to develop a custom kit for my E92 race car build. At the time, KW had not yet done a fully custom inverted monotube front and true rear coilover motorsport kit for these cars. Their only option was the original “Competition” kit, which was essentially a revalved Clubsport with stiffer springs, still using a twin-tube design front and rear.

We collaborated to develop the kit to my specifications—working out damper lengths and stroke based on the ride height and tire sizes I wanted to run, testing valving profiles and various spring rate combinations, and dialing in details like remote reservoir line lengths to suit my mounting locations (with the shortest lines possible). The original kit was a 2-way setup, though it could be configured as a 3-way if desired.

That kit eventually became the V4 Racing, which can now be special-ordered through KW Motorsport. Unless you request specific changes, the kit you’d receive today is essentially the one I helped develop. Quite a few have been sold over the years, and the feedback has been excellent.

Building on the E92 design, I worked with KW again in 2021 to develop an F8X M3/M4 kit for an M4 build. The kits are very similar overall, though the rear shock design differs slightly compared to the E92. I’m now back in an E92 and on my third set of KW’s—currently running V4 Racing 3-ways—and I’m still very happy with them.

I’ve had friends who run MCS on their BMWs drive my cars, and the feedback on the KW dampers is always extremely positive. To be fair, their cars on MCS drive very well too. In terms of damping quality and body control, you really can’t go wrong with Moton, JRZ’s motorsport line, Penske, Öhlins TTX, KW’s racing line, or MCS. I haven’t had a chance to try Intrax yet, but I’d love to.

All that said, I have no idea whether MCS has changed their design since those failures years ago—they very well may have. Regardless, that type of failure is almost impossible with an inverted setup, and I value that extra peace of mind.

[Mvez]

Originally Posted by M3SQRD

What is an “inverted” rear damper/shock? Bilstein rear race dampers don’t use an “inverted” design. Rear dampers do not react lateral bending moments so why create a heavier rear damper with its body on the outside?

It's just inverted so either the adjusters or the entire shock body is at the bottom, not the top, so that you can make shock changes without having to reach inside the trunk/chassis area.

Ohlins makes them for some R&T applications like 370Z and other cars. Bilstein offered them back in the day for E30 and E36 applications, and you still seem them some here and there.

Here is a link to the new Clubsport EVO-R shocks slowing rolling out for BMW's and Porsche. These are the best on the market IMO.
They still use steel bodies for front struts (most ideal), but then now are using aluminum bodies and nicer features where applicable for rear shocks, like moving the adjusters to the bottom for easy access. You can see there kits here:

https://www.ecstuning.com/b-bilstein...89-317594~bil/
https://www.springrates.com/products...BoCSDcQAvD_BwE

[tsk94]

Originally Posted by Mvez

Yikes, that's some scary stuff, and exactly why I use inverted for every strut car I have. Perhaps MCS increased their shaft diameter, which is a common marketing point for non-inverted struts to satisfy potential customers, and agree they make a good product, it's just not for me with strut cars.

I was working with KW Motorsport for my E30 M3 Group-N track build as well, they offer an inverted monotube setup with the hard to find, all new front spindles.
I ultimately went with the original Bilstein motorsport shocks though, as I wanted to keep it very period correct with the motorsport valved inverted shocks from Bilstein, but KW was nice to deal with regardless. Their willingness to build whatever I wanted was nice, whether it be V4 or V5.

Another data point, all the "motorsport" shocks from KW for the 997 and 991 Cup/GT3 Strut-based race cars had both aluminum and "endurance" steel body options for their inverted monotubes.
The fact they offered steel bodies tells you something as well.

For A-arm cars I think MCS is a great option, along with all the current generation of solid piston, twin tubes from Ohlins TTX and KW. But I also love monotube shocks and their firm low speed chassis support (a typical trait of Bilstein). Nice to have options!

Beautiful E30! My dad and some buddies built a Group A/DTM replica build back in the early 2000's - had the 2.5L S14, dogleg box, carbon body panels, modified suspension pick-up points, the works. Seriously quick for what it was. I'd need to ask them what they ran for suspension, but I thought it was some sort of custom Bilstein's...

I do often forget that Bilstein does offer custom motorsport dampers, like KW's program. You just often hear even less about it. But their off the shelf Evo R and Clubsport stuff is very nice. I was quite close to getting the Bilstein Clubsports for my original M3 build based on this thread..!

[M43ver]

Originally Posted by Mvez

Sorry guys, been quite a while and busy with other project builds, but my E92 is still trucking along, getting better than ever.

A few answers/info to some recent questions above:

1. Bilstein is slowly phasing out "Clubsport" lines for the replacement, which are the same but with nicer upgrades, called "EVO-R". They are the same double adjustable race setups, but with nicer features.

For example, the rear shocks in the new E92 M3 EVO R kit are to be inverted, which is a really nice feature. Bilstein takes forever to release things, as they are a huge OEM type company, but the product is top notch.

Usually there are sets still around on vendor shelves though, so I'm sure if you look you can find a set of Clubsports if you dont' want to wait.

Are you certain Bilstein is phasing out the Clubsport line? It’s on their website and appears to have been updated.

[M43ver]

Originally Posted by Mvez

It's just inverted so either the adjusters or the entire shock body is at the bottom, not the top, so that you can make shock changes without having to reach inside the trunk/chassis area.

Ohlins makes them for some R&T applications like 370Z and other cars. Bilstein offered them back in the day for E30 and E36 applications, and you still seem them some here and there.

Here is a link to the new Clubsport EVO-R shocks slowing rolling out for BMW's and Porsche. These are the best on the market IMO.
They still use steel bodies for front struts (most ideal), but then now are using aluminum bodies and nicer features where applicable for rear shocks, like moving the adjusters to the bottom for easy access. You can see there kits here:

Any rear damper can be used inverted (upside down) so I can see why it was questioned; i.e., inverted strut. I run my rear damper “inverted” and it didn’t require a new design/option but I guess it does make a difference on the e9x M3 based on how the upper damper is mounted.

[M3SQRD]

Originally Posted by M43ver

Any rear damper can be used inverted (upside down) so I can see why it was questioned; i.e., inverted strut. I run my rear damper “inverted” and it didn’t require a new design/option but I guess it does make a difference on the e9x M3 based on how the upper damper is mounted.

Exactly. I actually run the MCS rear upper clevis mount so I can run the same MCS rear damper either top side up or top side down. However, good point about the standard e92 M3 using an upper threaded rod and two-piece bushing to mount the rear damper.

[BigTee]

Do any of you know where we can purchase these coilovers? It seems like they are still available in Europe.

[Mvez]

Originally Posted by BigTee

Do any of you know where we can purchase these coilovers? It seems like they are still available in Europe.

Reach out to Beau and Performance Shock in Cali. They are Bilstein's official North America shock servicer and have direct access to all their products, whether it be stocked in the USA or Germany. Just give them the part number.

I just got a set of the Bilstein Clubsports for my buddy with a 718 GT4 from Beau. They are still offering the Clubsport line for some cars, yes. It's just a phasing-out as the EVO-R come online and replace some. There will be overlap, and either kit will be fine and essentially the exact same.

[BigTee]

Originally Posted by Mvez

Reach out to Beau and Performance Shock in Cali. They are Bilstein's official North America shock servicer and have direct access to all their products, whether it be stocked in the USA or Germany. Just give them the part number.

I just got a set of the Bilstein Clubsports for my buddy with a 718 GT4 from Beau. They are still offering the Clubsport line for some cars, yes. It's just a phasing-out as the EVO-R come online and replace some. There will be overlap, and either kit will be fine and essentially the exact same.

Is this the same Beau with the white time attack eclipse?