|
|
08-29-2008, 11:15 PM | #67 |
Major General
382
Rep 8,033
Posts |
Not at all. They will make more than 10000 of M3s per year. How many Viper ACRs do you think they will sell at $100k? And the Viper ACR is clearly meant for the track; adjustable suspension and wings and all. I read 1000 lbs potential downforce at 150mph!
__________________
|
Appreciate
0
|
08-30-2008, 12:09 AM | #68 | |
Major General
608
Rep 5,446
Posts |
Quote:
in a world of 250,000 camrys and accords each imported to the USA , 10k sounds pretty limitedd pruduction to me. agree tho the ACR is in another league - but its also clearly not a DD.
__________________
Fore Sale Rare 6 speed manual X3 3.oi silver over grey. PM me
|
|
Appreciate
0
|
08-30-2008, 12:17 AM | #69 |
Major General
608
Rep 5,446
Posts |
the top times , ACR and GT3 are on PSC rubber. I think even the GTR tires are aan almost R-comp tire. I am thinking the M3 could break into the 1.39's on R rubber?
Viper ACR 1:35.117 GT3 1:39.517 GTR 1:40.4 Z06 1:40.919 R8 1:40.9 911T 1:42.5 M3 1:42.9 Exige S 1:45.818 Cayman S 1:47.577 EVO 1:47.7 Cobalt 1:47.7 335i 1:49.038 Mazdaspeed3 1:50.375 Rx8 1:50.4 S2000 1:50.738 Mini S JCW 1:51.733 MINI 1:51.9 Civic Si 1:54.990
__________________
Fore Sale Rare 6 speed manual X3 3.oi silver over grey. PM me
|
Appreciate
0
|
08-30-2008, 01:20 AM | #70 |
Captain
36
Rep 625
Posts |
[QUOTE=sayemthree;3247979]the top times , ACR and GT3 are on PSC rubber. I think even the GTR tires are aan almost R-comp tire. I am thinking the M3 could break into the 1.39's on R rubber? ]
I think PS2s are probably close to as sticky as PSCs (which are not that sticky for an R-compound). I'd guess that a switch from PS2s to PSCs would be worth 2 seconds at the most. And if you went to something stickier (R6 or similar) then you would be seriously taxing the suspension (not a high enough spring rate/dampening or enough camber) so just bolting them on may not be worth as much as you might think. Still, 1:39.9 is only 3 seconds away . . . Anyone want to volunteer to try for the '39s?!
__________________
Driving sideways: It's not faster, but damn it's more fun!
|
Appreciate
0
|
08-30-2008, 02:12 AM | #71 | |
Major General
608
Rep 5,446
Posts |
[QUOTE=e36jakeo;3248128][QUOTE=sayemthree;3247979]the top times , ACR and GT3 are on PSC rubber. I think even the GTR tires are aan almost R-comp tire. I am thinking the M3 could break into the 1.39's on R rubber? ]
Quote:
a PSC will beat the PS by 1.36 sec. over a 30 sec autocross. translate that to a 1.40 time and thats over 4 seconds!!!! (tire rack tests) http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tests/...ay.jsp?ttid=36
__________________
Fore Sale Rare 6 speed manual X3 3.oi silver over grey. PM me
|
|
Appreciate
0
|
08-30-2008, 03:19 AM | #72 | |
Major General
1208
Rep 8,034
Posts |
Quote:
Finally, someone else saying basically the same as I have done on multiple thread when the subject of R-compound rubber is mentioned and by how much it will improve a car on stock suspension. |
|
Appreciate
0
|
08-30-2008, 07:26 AM | #73 |
Major General
834
Rep 7,887
Posts |
The main reason that I run an "R" compound tire on the track is to reduce costs.Most R compounds cost about 50% of the the stock PS2's and will last much longer than a street tire with a little bit of care.I think the stock PS2's do a darn good job and my Toyo r888's are an OK trackday tire but far from being the quickest available and to take full advantage of the grip available there are things that should be done(alignment),but I will not do as this would ruin the everyday livibility of this car.If I get real serious about track days in the future,I will stop doing bike days and my Ducati track bike will be replaced by a proper dedicated track day car with full safety gear.
|
Appreciate
0
|
08-30-2008, 10:22 AM | #74 | |
Major General
608
Rep 5,446
Posts |
Quote:
I have run stock BMW's for years with R-comp tires. they rock, they do last much longer on the track too. also street tires overheat quickly and lose grip on the track. also how can you argue with the Tire Rack test.
__________________
Fore Sale Rare 6 speed manual X3 3.oi silver over grey. PM me
|
|
Appreciate
0
|
08-30-2008, 11:06 AM | #75 |
Lieutenant Colonel
50
Rep 1,664
Posts |
2-3 seconds b/c of improved traction isn't far fetched...
__________________
2008 E92 M3 Jerez Black,DCT,Fox Red ext,Prem,Tech,19", ipod/usb, CF roof and trim
2010 E91 328i Space Gray,Black int, M sport, most options 2007 Montego Blue 335i (retired) |
Appreciate
0
|
08-30-2008, 01:26 PM | #76 | |
Major General
1208
Rep 8,034
Posts |
Quote:
You and I have never crossed words or disagreed on very much and I don't want this to happen here either, so please let me explain why I say what I do and why I know I am correct. Firstly, yes I totally agree, R-compound will last much longer than stock rubber, they were never meant to get the kind of abuse that trackdays give, they were design for comfort, noise, dry handling & braking plus wet handling, braking and aquaplaning. Basically a road tyre is a jack of all trades, something a race breed compound doesn't have to contend with. Secondly, I am not saying that fitting R-compound tyres won't improve the time of a stock car, I have never said different, all I am saying is that the tyres aren't working at their optimum and to do that the suspension has to be tuned to work the tyres harder. Manufacturers work very closely with tyre manufacturers to develop a tyre for a certain model, if anything it proves that you can't just throw on anything and hope for the best. What Tire Track tests are proving is there is a difference but then I never said there wasn't, just that it's not as great as it could be. |
|
Appreciate
0
|
08-30-2008, 07:41 PM | #77 | |
Major General
608
Rep 5,446
Posts |
Quote:
so we agree a custom alignment would optimize the use of R tires and we agree R tires are faster on the track.
__________________
Fore Sale Rare 6 speed manual X3 3.oi silver over grey. PM me
|
|
Appreciate
0
|
08-30-2008, 08:24 PM | #78 | |
Major General
834
Rep 7,887
Posts |
Quote:
|
|
Appreciate
0
|
08-30-2008, 08:49 PM | #79 |
Captain
13
Rep 689
Posts |
Very tempting......
I already have the race tires and wheels.
__________________
Manual gearboxes, the rotary dial of cars.
|
Appreciate
0
|
08-30-2008, 08:54 PM | #80 | |
Captain
13
Rep 689
Posts |
Quote:
The amount of camber you need depends on a lot of things. I don't have enough wear on my nt-01s yet to guage the cars behavior in thise regard. So far it appears to do better than I expected. It also varries a lot from tire to tire. On one car I had 048s wear even, RA-1s wear very uneven, and the A6s a little uneven but not as bad as the RA-1s. Same track springs and alignment for all.
__________________
Manual gearboxes, the rotary dial of cars.
|
|
Appreciate
0
|
08-30-2008, 09:15 PM | #81 | |
Major General
834
Rep 7,887
Posts |
Quote:
|
|
Appreciate
0
|
08-30-2008, 09:56 PM | #82 |
Captain
13
Rep 689
Posts |
Depends. If you know how fast your turns are, it can be good. Problem is with tons of caster you generally either sacrifice slow or fast turn for the other.
__________________
Manual gearboxes, the rotary dial of cars.
|
Appreciate
0
|
08-30-2008, 10:09 PM | #83 |
NASA/PDA Instructor
24
Rep 284
Posts |
The local rule of thumb has always been that an r-compound DOT-tire, a good one... Hoosier or Kumho slick, will give about 2 seconds for a 1 minute lap on any given suspension. If you have the ability to dial-in the extra grip afforded by the "sticky", then you'll find more time.
__________________
"Arcadian, I've fought countless times, yet I've never met an adversary who could offer me what we Spartans call "A Beautiful Death." I can only hope, with all the world's warriors gathered against us, there might be one down there who's up to the task."Μολὼν λαβέ!! |
Appreciate
0
|
08-30-2008, 11:17 PM | #84 |
Major General
834
Rep 7,887
Posts |
I never had a street based car that you could crank in too much castor,but I am sure every case is different.
|
Appreciate
0
|
08-31-2008, 12:58 AM | #85 | |
Major General
608
Rep 5,446
Posts |
Quote:
heck.... the new BFG tire beat the Hoosier by 1 second alone only on a 45 sec course. thats 1.3 sec per 60 sec lap just between R-comp tires alone!
__________________
Fore Sale Rare 6 speed manual X3 3.oi silver over grey. PM me
|
|
Appreciate
0
|
08-31-2008, 03:41 AM | #86 |
Major General
1208
Rep 8,034
Posts |
To say as a rule of thumb that R-compound is 1s or more per 60 seconds is not true, each track and conditions are different, the same goes for model that the tyres are placed on. It all depends on the corners involved and the length of the straights.
On a tight course the improvement will be greater but don't think that the same improvement will be there on a track like the ring. Listen to Enigma and Gearhead, they understand that stock suspension settings are not optimum for track tyres, to make maximum gains requires adjustment and a lot more bravery on your part, it is amazing how hard it is to accept that you can go harder. |
Appreciate
0
|
08-31-2008, 06:13 AM | #87 |
Major General
834
Rep 7,887
Posts |
Just to clarify a point on knowing that I need a lot more camber in the M3 is that at the 1st trackday that I did with the car,we had a 200 ft skidpad to use and a tire temp gauge.There was over 40 degrees diff inside to outside on the fronts and 15 on the rear in both dirrections.We were not guessing at this.
But that brings me back to the point that the M3 is a wonderful everday car with its standard settings,but like any other car it does need to be optimized for the track to work at its best.I dont think that I am willing to put up with that comprimise,so when I track it I know I am leaving a lot on the table but still having a lot of fun in a fast track day car. |
Appreciate
0
|
Post Reply |
Bookmarks |
Thread Tools | Search this Thread |
|
|