|
|
07-27-2013, 03:56 PM | #45 | ||
Lieutenant General
7736
Rep 12,405
Posts |
Quote:
1) In case you haven't read this thread (skip to page 6-ish) http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthr...=856441&page=8 2) My commute is around 12 miles. During the winter, my car running 10W60 oil doesn't even reach 210F. It goes back to bearing wear as well, since the belief is that most wear is happening when the oil is cold. A lighter oil would heat up faster. The reason I'm not too worried about going to a lighter oil is because there are plenty of high revving engines that don't require such a thick oil. I'm out of warranty anyway. Quote:
__________________
Current:
16 F82 M4 GTS, Black Sapphire/Black, DCT 08 E92 M3, Sparkling Graphite/Bamboo Beige, 6MT 07 E85 Z4M Roadster, Alpine White/Red, 6MT 99 E36 M3, Techno Violet/Dove Grey, 6MT |
||
Appreciate
0
|
07-27-2013, 05:59 PM | #46 |
First Lieutenant
38
Rep 374
Posts |
Well, I guess you'll get to see which vis heats up faster.
And for 12 mi commute in really cold weather, I'd take a couple of extra laps - - try to get the oil up to 210 or as close as possible. Seriously. And if it were me, I'd keep an eye on fuel dilution - - or to put it another way, viscosity. The Mobil 1 0w40 will shear back very quickly to a heavy 30 wt (it's a very light 40 wt out of the bottle) and then keep on thinning out if you have fuel dilution. You're probably going for an intermediate drain interval, but I would check the condition of the oil with a uoa. FWIW I've never seen a uoa on a M3 running Mobil 1 0w40. I'd be very curious to see how that oil performs in an e92 M3, viscosity-wise, if it's run at an extended interval. PS: I know the early M3's show a little lead in the uoa's. Just so you know most labs and oem's use a limit of 20 ppm lead. Anything in single digits is not a worry.
__________________
'14 328d, '13 M3 ZCP, '12 535i, '11 335d, '09 Z4 DINAN Stage II, '05 330i ZHP, '05 M3 ZCP, '02 M3, '91 328i, '90 535i, '88 528e, '88 M5, '87 M6, '95 Z3, 95 M3, '93 M5, '87 325e, '89 535i, '86 635i, '73 Bavaria. Last edited by m6pwr; 07-27-2013 at 06:07 PM.. |
Appreciate
0
|
07-27-2013, 09:52 PM | #47 |
Enlisted Member
4
Rep 33
Posts |
I used the LiquiMoly 10W60 for years in my E46 M3. No issues and it's cheaper than Castrol TWS.
__________________
|
Appreciate
0
|
07-28-2013, 10:29 AM | #49 |
Veni Vidi Vici
89
Rep 2,750
Posts
Drives: '11 JB/BBe-6sp-e90
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Macungie PA
iTrader: (0)
Garage List 2011 e90 M3-Sold [8.50]
2003 RS6 - Sold [0.00] 2009 e90 M3 - Gone [0.00] 2003 M3 SOLD [0.00] old 2002 [10.00] |
My Redline blends (50% 5W-30 street, 50% 40W race) come out at 7k to 8k miles with the same viscosity they went in with. Here are three runs right after changing from TWS.
__________________
Dinan compliment of stuff plus PF rotors and RG63s. Enough for now. Why, yes. I am an abrasive bastard. |
Appreciate
0
|
07-28-2013, 10:40 AM | #50 |
First Lieutenant
38
Rep 374
Posts |
I can't find it. I've never been able to use the search function on BITOG anyway. Can you post a link if you have it?
__________________
'14 328d, '13 M3 ZCP, '12 535i, '11 335d, '09 Z4 DINAN Stage II, '05 330i ZHP, '05 M3 ZCP, '02 M3, '91 328i, '90 535i, '88 528e, '88 M5, '87 M6, '95 Z3, 95 M3, '93 M5, '87 325e, '89 535i, '86 635i, '73 Bavaria. |
Appreciate
0
|
07-28-2013, 11:19 AM | #51 | |
Lieutenant General
7736
Rep 12,405
Posts |
Quote:
If it means lower drain interval, that's fine. This stuff is considerably cheaper than TWS anyway.
__________________
Current:
16 F82 M4 GTS, Black Sapphire/Black, DCT 08 E92 M3, Sparkling Graphite/Bamboo Beige, 6MT 07 E85 Z4M Roadster, Alpine White/Red, 6MT 99 E36 M3, Techno Violet/Dove Grey, 6MT |
|
Appreciate
0
|
07-28-2013, 03:27 PM | #52 |
Major
251
Rep 1,382
Posts |
Liqui Moly I think is better its cheaper and my motor runs cooler than when on castrol. I've used it in my previous e46 m3 and my friend uses it on his m5.
__________________
2018 F80 M3 ZCP Mineral White- Extended Shakir Orange - Full Suntek Ultra Wrapped - ///M Performance Spoiler - RKP Front Lip - RKP Side Skirts - Vorsteiner GTS Diffuser -AA Mid-Pipe-///M performance HAS kit - HRE P101
11 E90 M3 JEREZ BLK METALLIC ZCP SOLD |
Appreciate
0
|
07-28-2013, 05:19 PM | #53 | |
First Lieutenant
38
Rep 374
Posts |
Quote:
How did the phosphorous/zinc get so high? I know you surf BITOG so you may have already seen this thread on excess zddp - http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums...2481655&page=1 Here's an excerpt - In December, 2007, the publication GM Techlink, distributed to GM dealers, contained an article by a GM lubrication guru, Bob Olree, of the GM Powertrain Fuels and Lubricants Group. As well as debunking certain other erroneous ideas about oil, he addresses the ZDDP question in detail. In that article, he flatly calls the concern about ZDDP a “myth,” citing the extensive testing of modern oils for scuff resistance. One paragraph is especially worth repeating here: A higher level of ZDDP was good for flat-tappet valve-train scuffing and wear, but it turned out that more was not better. Although break-in scuffing was reduced by using more phosphorus, longer-term wear increased when phosphorus rose above 0.14%. And, at about 0.20% phosphorus, the ZDDP started attacking the grain boundaries in the iron, resulting in camshaft spalling. So, more is not necessarily better. It’s a good idea to keep this in mind before using high-ZDDP racing oil, diesel oil, or any other additives in a street engine.
__________________
'14 328d, '13 M3 ZCP, '12 535i, '11 335d, '09 Z4 DINAN Stage II, '05 330i ZHP, '05 M3 ZCP, '02 M3, '91 328i, '90 535i, '88 528e, '88 M5, '87 M6, '95 Z3, 95 M3, '93 M5, '87 325e, '89 535i, '86 635i, '73 Bavaria. |
|
Appreciate
0
|
07-29-2013, 05:17 PM | #54 |
Bad Lieutenant
237
Rep 3,517
Posts |
Great report, Joe. Nice to see Redline using more moly ... zero lead ... looks like you have a nice recipe here.
__________________
02 E39M5 | TiAg/Schwartz | Tubi Rumore | Ultimate Ti Pedals | E60 SSK | Coby Alcantara | StrongStrut STB
|
Appreciate
0
|
07-29-2013, 06:25 PM | #55 | |
Lieutenant Colonel
30
Rep 1,789
Posts |
Quote:
|
|
Appreciate
0
|
07-29-2013, 06:53 PM | #56 | |
First Lieutenant
38
Rep 374
Posts |
Quote:
__________________
'14 328d, '13 M3 ZCP, '12 535i, '11 335d, '09 Z4 DINAN Stage II, '05 330i ZHP, '05 M3 ZCP, '02 M3, '91 328i, '90 535i, '88 528e, '88 M5, '87 M6, '95 Z3, 95 M3, '93 M5, '87 325e, '89 535i, '86 635i, '73 Bavaria. |
|
Appreciate
0
|
08-11-2013, 08:17 AM | #57 | |
Captain
165
Rep 658
Posts |
Quote:
http://www.enginebuildermag.com/Arti...continues.aspx I'm wondering how much money bmw saves by extending the oil change intervals. Thus requiring a specific weight and properties to keep the cats alive, motor alive, and meeting the api levels. Maybe 10w60 tws is not the end-all best oil or even weight. If a lot of bear I g wear happens on startup, maybe a lighter weight oil is better... 0.02 |
|
Appreciate
0
|
08-11-2013, 09:32 PM | #58 |
First Lieutenant
38
Rep 374
Posts |
Interesting article. But it's all over the place - - almost like the Bible, I could pick and choose and quote an excerpt to make any point I want. Many generalizations. Is the author talking about the zddp needs of a motor like the s65 or the s54, overhead cams with direct springing for four tiny valves per cylinder. Or does he have in mind some honking American V8 with the inertia of push rod valve trains pushing two large valves per cylinder?
Would any one in his right mind use a GF5 API SN "star burst" oil in an M3? If we're talking about a true racing application (ALMS, SCCA, etc), then yes, a true racing oil would be a logical choice. Race it for a day or weekend, then drain it. Forget the API certs. Drag racing with supercharging and nitrous (an M3?), then maybe 1700 ppm zddp would be in order (promptly drained). Street use, even with the mighty s65, with some hpde schools thrown in, I think TWS will do just fine. I don't do schools any more but back in the day, I did 6 or 7 each year on the east coast (Wash DC). Pretty tight group of track junkies in the club and none to my knowledge ever used a "racing oil", and a couple of them had high mileage BMWs. And when I say track junkies, i mean guys and girls that would do Summit Point one weekend, drive to Mid Ohio the next, then Bridgehampton the next, Road Atlanta the next, the New Hampshire track (can't remember the name) next, Lime Rock the next, and one uber junkie would even drive nearly half way across the US to Road America. All on the BMW spec'd API/ACEA oil. FWIW I still have a voa of TWS that I did back in 2009. It was a API SJ oil. The voa showed phos/zinc of 641/796. I think it had some vegetable ester in it ( probably castor oil) for antiwear, but that doesn't show up in a voa. So much for zddp. It's not the be-all, end-all of motor oil. In fact I think the article quotes a source to that effect. The newer formulation TWS is API SM and has, in my opinion, a very strong AW package: generous amt of zddp 859/902, plus some serious other AW adds like moly, boron, and titanium. As for bearing wear on start-up, if i lived in upper New York State or upper Minnesota, I would probably use a 0w40 oil like Mobil 1 in the dead of winter with morning temps sub zero. For sure it would flow better on start-up than TWS 10w60. Less wear? Who knows. Never seen any "start-up" wear data comparing the two. But I'd err on the side of the lighter oil.
__________________
'14 328d, '13 M3 ZCP, '12 535i, '11 335d, '09 Z4 DINAN Stage II, '05 330i ZHP, '05 M3 ZCP, '02 M3, '91 328i, '90 535i, '88 528e, '88 M5, '87 M6, '95 Z3, 95 M3, '93 M5, '87 325e, '89 535i, '86 635i, '73 Bavaria. |
Appreciate
0
|
08-12-2013, 09:21 AM | #59 |
First Lieutenant
38
Rep 374
Posts |
More on the subject of lighter oils in M cars. This morning I came across a uoa on BITOG from a e39 M5 using Mobil 1 0w40 during the Canadian winter. The oil performed fine. It was run at either 6000 mi or 10,000 mi (the uoa report is hard to read - - can't tell if it's miles or kilometers). The lab flagged fuel dilution as abnormal - - looks like it was up around 5 or 6% which is pretty high but not surprising in winter (most labs consider 2% the upper limit). The oil sheared back to a heavy 30 wt. So it did ok in winter, particularly considering the fuel dilution. Not sure how it would do in Texas summers, at 105 F temp.
As for racing application, a very experienced lubricant engineer (Doug Hillary), who has worked for both Castrol and Exxon/Mobil, told me in an email that the BMW factory team running e92 M3's at the Nurburgring 24 hr race used TWS 10w60. Same for the Audi factory team running the R8's. There's a current thread on Bitog discussing the use of Mobil 1 0w40 in Porsche engines. In it Hillary makes the following observation: "The Mobil 1 0W-40 at the Nurburgring was standard stuff as was the Castrol lubricants used. And I did spend time with Castrol and BMW's specialist engine development people there as well! As you know I have an extensive history with Castrol and the development of Castrol Formula R Synthetic 15W-50 (red, ester based)(SE) into the 10W-60 that has been so successful for so long." For anyone interested, the entire thread is here: http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums...65#Post3091965. For those that believe "light is right and thin is in", Hillary has also said that some teams at the Nurburgring race were experimenting with 5w20 oils (presumably racing oils, but who knows, maybe street oils). And 0w15 oils are coming, too.
__________________
'14 328d, '13 M3 ZCP, '12 535i, '11 335d, '09 Z4 DINAN Stage II, '05 330i ZHP, '05 M3 ZCP, '02 M3, '91 328i, '90 535i, '88 528e, '88 M5, '87 M6, '95 Z3, 95 M3, '93 M5, '87 325e, '89 535i, '86 635i, '73 Bavaria. |
Appreciate
0
|
08-23-2013, 06:15 PM | #60 |
ENTHUSIAST
135
Rep 2,097
Posts
Drives: 2010 Porsche Cayman
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Philadelphia
|
Shout out to VAC Motorsports in Philly. Couldn't get my usual Liqui Moly but they have Total 10w60 for only $8 fucking dollars a bottle. Wow!
__________________
"what I'm driving here...is an ending." Jeremy Clarkson
2010 Carrara White Porsche Cayman 6mt 2014 Whiteout Toyota GT-86 6mt(Sold 05/23/15) 2011 Alpine White BMW M3 6mt ZCP Coupe(forced retirement 06/06/14) 2008 Alpine White BMW 328i 6mt Coupe(retired 06/21/11) |
Appreciate
0
|
08-31-2013, 12:35 PM | #62 | |
Veni Vidi Vici
89
Rep 2,750
Posts
Drives: '11 JB/BBe-6sp-e90
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Macungie PA
iTrader: (0)
Garage List 2011 e90 M3-Sold [8.50]
2003 RS6 - Sold [0.00] 2009 e90 M3 - Gone [0.00] 2003 M3 SOLD [0.00] old 2002 [10.00] |
Quote:
If your car does get to the track, there are only two oils to use in my mind, Redline and Motul. Those are the only two ester based oils commonly available. Ester base stocks are superior to other synthetic stocks for high temperature stability. The old Castrol RS, which was the basis for the current TWS was ester based, but Castrol changed the formulation a few years back. TWS is no longer produced from ester base stocks. In my opinion, TWS is not the best choice for track use. If you don't go to the track, TWS is not appropriate, either. It's too heavy. If temps aren't getting over 220F, you should be running a 0W-40 like Mobil-1 or the equivalent Pennzoil Ultra formulation. These two seem to be the best street oils out there right now. Plenty of folks run the 0W-40 M1 on the track as well. There is also the Amsoil choice, for those so inclined.
__________________
Dinan compliment of stuff plus PF rotors and RG63s. Enough for now. Why, yes. I am an abrasive bastard. |
|
Appreciate
0
|
08-31-2013, 12:44 PM | #63 |
General
68546
Rep 26,163
Posts |
Where is Longwong ?
__________________
"MAX VERSTAPPEN" IS THE 2021+2022+2023 F1 WORLD CHAMPION - #UnLeashTheLion
BPM DEV-Tune & DCT Software-Tune & Servotronic & coding ///Alpine HID Angeleyes ///Oem.exhaust mod. |
Appreciate
0
|
08-31-2013, 02:59 PM | #64 |
Veni Vidi Vici
89
Rep 2,750
Posts
Drives: '11 JB/BBe-6sp-e90
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Macungie PA
iTrader: (0)
Garage List 2011 e90 M3-Sold [8.50]
2003 RS6 - Sold [0.00] 2009 e90 M3 - Gone [0.00] 2003 M3 SOLD [0.00] old 2002 [10.00] |
__________________
Dinan compliment of stuff plus PF rotors and RG63s. Enough for now. Why, yes. I am an abrasive bastard. |
Appreciate
0
|
08-31-2013, 03:30 PM | #65 |
General
68546
Rep 26,163
Posts |
Good from you,but actualy we need to call him ....not Longwong but ....Oilwong !
__________________
"MAX VERSTAPPEN" IS THE 2021+2022+2023 F1 WORLD CHAMPION - #UnLeashTheLion
BPM DEV-Tune & DCT Software-Tune & Servotronic & coding ///Alpine HID Angeleyes ///Oem.exhaust mod. |
Appreciate
0
|
08-31-2013, 03:35 PM | #66 |
General
68546
Rep 26,163
Posts |
I miss him too !
__________________
"MAX VERSTAPPEN" IS THE 2021+2022+2023 F1 WORLD CHAMPION - #UnLeashTheLion
BPM DEV-Tune & DCT Software-Tune & Servotronic & coding ///Alpine HID Angeleyes ///Oem.exhaust mod. |
Appreciate
0
|
Post Reply |
Bookmarks |
Thread Tools | Search this Thread |
|
|