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03-23-2008, 11:45 PM | #419 | ||
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http://pages.ebay.com/help/buy/motors-bidding.html "Remember that each bid you place enters you into a binding contract. If you win a listing, you’re obligated to complete the transaction. Read the User Agreement for details." "While using the Sites, you will not: -use the Sites if you are not able to form legally binding contracts, are under the age of 18, or are temporarily or indefinitely suspended from our Sites." End of story. |
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03-23-2008, 11:45 PM | #420 |
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Hey, do you work for Lincoln? Lawyer for them? What's the deal?
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03-23-2008, 11:46 PM | #421 | |
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It says it under UCC rules explicitly that if there isn't "no reserve" then it has a reserve; i'm not omitting anything.
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03-23-2008, 11:48 PM | #422 | |
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Look, I love the M3, but I aint' got the cash. I just bought a brand new Chevy Aveo in January--can't get much lower than that. It's all I can afford, but I'm okay with that (sigh...). Nevertheless, I arranged the purchase of the car over the internet, was given a quote, and went to the dealership 90 miles away. When there, the sale manager tried to slip me a sales agreement with a $500 higher price. They had some story about a mistake on some line item, but when I showed them the out-the-door price originally given to me, the honored it. I respect them for that. If this is the MO for the entire industry--trying to weasel out of a deal squarely reached, then it needs to be fixed. You bet this is an outrage, if for no other reason that it threatens the integrity of the online auction market. You just can't go and reneg on a deal and expect the market to accept that. If we do, then what's the fricken point of even using something like ebay? Free markets require an expectation of honesty, and I just don't see that happening here. Also, if the dealer upped the buy-it-now price during the auction (and I seem to recall that happening), or if they simply had the ability to do so but chose not to exercise that option, then it seems that they are liable for the price they offered to the seller. I ain't no lawyer, but something clearly smells rotten in Lincoln. |
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03-23-2008, 11:48 PM | #423 | |
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I'm saying this, even if it's a contract the offeree has to accept the TOS, which means the dealer can refuse to sell. If he doesn't want to follow the acceptance then it isn't a contract. Sorry, if I made you tear up. :'(
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03-23-2008, 11:49 PM | #424 | |
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This is an easy case - absolutely cut and dry issue in totally settled law. Their lawyers will know they have a loser and offer to settle. I'd be surprised if there wasn't a settlement offer in the works right now. If they don't honor the deal, OP should sue. He is entitled to the difference the the price contracted for and the value of the item to be delivered (courts would rarely apply specific damages in cases like this, in otherwords, they won't force the dealership to sell the car to OP for 60 grand - the far more likely remedy will be money damages are easily measured). Basically - they'll have to pay him about 8 grand. He may rather have the car, but this way he'll have 8 grand more to put down on one . . .my guess is with a competing dealer. |
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03-23-2008, 11:49 PM | #425 |
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Well then I'm confused on this as well....when entering the information for the m3 in question (or any item for that matter) the owner or representative will see the selection option "set reserve?" pop up. At that time you would select what your reserve is. If you select nothing....then there is no reserve. And somebody please correct me if I'm wrong...but didn't the op say part of the attraction to this auction was the fact that it was advertised as "no reserve"?
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03-23-2008, 11:50 PM | #426 |
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What's the deal? Laws might not be unfair, but we have to respect them. Even if this issue is unethical, we have to acknowledge the way it should be handled legally.
I'm not taking sides here; I'm just presenting the facts and what the law says.
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03-23-2008, 11:51 PM | #427 | |
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Or you could look at it as the dealer made the initial offer by listing the car at 60k, which the buyer accepted by placing his bid. In fact, I think that's probably right since the dealer was the initial offeree with the car listed at 60k. As to the federal court thing, I think you're right actually. |
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03-23-2008, 11:52 PM | #428 | |
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Because this auction was a buy now there was not anything that said "No Reserve", therefore by default it had a reserve.
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03-23-2008, 11:53 PM | #429 | |
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EDIT: Do you not hear how daft you sound? This isn't some ethereal concept we're dealing with; eBay specifically has a "reserve" function to offset these kinds of problems. There isn't some intangible reserve that gives the seller a get-out-of-a-deal card. I've been on eBay since 1998 and I've sold hundreds of items and I've even dealt with cases similar to this. |
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03-23-2008, 11:54 PM | #430 |
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No, it is pretty clear that you are taking a side. There is no reason for you to take such an interest in defending the dealership just on your own. You probably make up the 0.01% of people on this board who do not want to see the OP get his car.
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03-23-2008, 11:55 PM | #431 |
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Holy crap, I leave for a few hours and hit the gym, and this thread rocketed from 14 pages to 21!!
It's still breaking new records.... Current users online: 3284 (352 members and 2932 guests) Most users ever online: 3927, today at 8:49 PM
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03-23-2008, 11:55 PM | #432 | |
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03-23-2008, 11:57 PM | #433 |
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I'n the end, I hope the OP gets his new M3 for 60k. He won the auction so he deserves it, imo. I just hope that it isnt at the sake of some poor sap salesman, that was supposed to list the car on ebay, and fucked up by accidentally not including a reserve, and now has no job and the entire internets ready to tar and feather him.
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03-23-2008, 11:58 PM | #434 | |
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You're making it sound like Ebay is selling the car to that guy. Anyways how can eBay enforce everything. Businesses, make their TOS bulletproof to avoid issues like this. Read up on some contract law then get back to me. I don't feel like repeating myself, because I've stated it several times. A. It's either a contract, and the buyer has to follow the TOS B. It' s not a contract, seller doesn't have to do anything. Buyer can't take legal action.
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03-23-2008, 11:59 PM | #435 |
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@dailyyeah,
Have you ever used eBay? You specifically have to set a reserve price. The auction will always clearly state that there is a reserve (although it won't be disclosed to any potential buyers, what the reserve price is). It's not arbitrary. It either has a reserve or doesn't. eBay auctions do not have a reserve by default if one is not set by the seller. |
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03-24-2008, 12:00 AM | #436 | |
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Mr. Yeah, Most reputable lawyers will clearly spell out that they are *not* giving legal advice when posting in a forum such as this. If you are a lawyer, and you're claiming to "present the law", you better be darn sure you're right (and I don't mean "because I said so" right). Frankly, I think the new posters who are sympathetic to the dealership have a bit of a smell about them... [yes, I'm new; not a lawyer; and I'm disgusted by Husker's behavior] |
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03-24-2008, 12:00 AM | #437 | |
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I just think it's a good chance to practice my knowledge of law. But I'm not by any means an expert on law.
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03-24-2008, 12:02 AM | #438 | |
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"There is no way to cancel an auction listing or a bid once the auction has ended and a winning bid has occurred. Regardless of your intent, once an auction listing closes and a bidder wins your item or service, you're contractually bound as an eBay seller to accept payment and deliver unless one of the following is true: * It's a real estate auction. Since eBay real estate auctions (listings for land, investment property, or housing) are non-binding, a seller is not required to sell real estate to the highest bidder even when one exists. * The other party's account is suspended. Since no eBay member is required to complete a transaction with a member whose account is suspended, a seller need not complete a transaction if the buyer or winning bidder is suspended from eBay once the listing is complete but before shipment has occurred. * Your listing featured a reserve price. Sellers are not required to sell to the high bidder on an auction listing if there was a reserve price associated with the listing and the reserve price was not met." |
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03-24-2008, 12:02 AM | #439 | |
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Just for the record, yeah counselor? Er, future, hopeful counselor that is. Cheers |
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03-24-2008, 12:02 AM | #440 | |
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