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08-30-2018, 07:56 PM | #23 |
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yup... ordered my E90 with moonroof because I prefer it over steel roof. If there was a CF roof option like the F80 I would've done that.
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08-30-2018, 08:00 PM | #24 | |
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08-30-2018, 08:22 PM | #25 |
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If it's in good condition, yes, I'd get it if I was looking for an m3.
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08-31-2018, 06:08 AM | #27 |
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It made it hard 6 years ago in my search for a 2011 6MT slicktop, but there is no way I would have purchased it with a sunroof. Besides never using a sunroof, the reduction in headroom is significant and prevents me from wearing a helmet. I already knew this was the case since we've owned an E90 330i since new and were forced to buy it with a sunroof (premium package stuff wasn't available otherwise).
The resale market is stronger for slicktop E90 M3s -- just ask EAG; they immediately sell at strong pricing the combo of E90 ZCP 6MT slicktop. It's the most desirable car they want to purchase. I hated that my E39 M5 had to have a sunroof...the entire 14+ years I owned the car. Sadly, BMWNA didn't import a single one with a slicktop while in every other market in the world, customers were able to choose. Our E91 has a monster sunroof which of course was forced on every imported E91 by BMWNA. It goes much further back than the sedan such that it dramatically imposes on rear headroom. I'm only 6'2", but I can't sit in the rear of the E91 without leaning to the side. It's ridiculous. It rattles over bumps, and probably weighs close to 100lbs. At least on M-cars BMW has made the sunroof a standalone option, starting with the E90, so customers can have a choice. We have an M2C on order with a slicktop, and if it wasn't available that way, I would not have bought the car.
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08-31-2018, 08:45 AM | #28 | |
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08-31-2018, 09:38 AM | #29 | |
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Keep in mind that we are talking about an original total of less than a thousand slicktop LCI cars. After a decade of M3 attrition, I wouldn't be surprised if the number remaining is between 500 and 750. It's a *tiny* market. And it's a tiny market that is basically oriented towards nerds. And nerds are picky. if we were talking about cars that were new to only a few years old, that would be one thing. But we aren't. The average buyer isn't buying these.
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08-31-2018, 11:55 AM | #30 |
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Slicktop! Here is mine
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08-31-2018, 12:47 PM | #31 |
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If I had a choice I would prefer a sunroof. I want all the bells and whistles a car can offer me. But it wouldn't be a deal killer by a long shot whether it had a sunroof or did not. But I enjoy the extra light a moon roof can offer and when you push the button forward, you get the added ventilation without messing up your hair lol.
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08-31-2018, 03:09 PM | #32 | |
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Most average E9X M3's with moderate miles are in the low to mid 20's where I am. That price bracket alone attracts plenty of non-"hardcore"-enthusiasts who don't care if it's an e92/3 or e90 M3 so long as it's an M3. With 25k you can cross shop 5th Camaro SS, 5.0 Mustangs, and 5.7 challeys with pre/post LCI M3s because performance and V8 alone. I'd wager there are far more of these buyers than you think, and I'd be surprised if they had a strong feeling about sunroofs or are aware of the S65's extra needs as compared to American pushrod V8s. |
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08-31-2018, 03:19 PM | #33 | |
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I have a sunroof but would prefer slicktop simply because I never use it and aesthetically it doesnt look as good to me but some sacrifices had to be made to find a 6spd MR E90 with speed cloth. |
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08-31-2018, 04:02 PM | #34 | |
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08-31-2018, 04:11 PM | #35 |
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I bought a 'slicktop E90 M3. I've never looked back or wished I had a sunroof. In my E60 M5 it was quite pleasurable.
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08-31-2018, 05:26 PM | #36 | |
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Before I bought my E90 I didn't have any understanding or awareness of the desirability of slicktop models. I also didn't understand I had a rare color other than the obvious fact that most BMWs are black/white/silver. In fact I didn't even know that E90s were significantly limited in production compared to E92s. My last Corvette had a very specific and desirable interior color combination that everyone flipped out on the forums. When I posted the car for sale I did it on the forums and on craigslist. Everyone on the forums fawned over my car but they were all tire kickers. The person that ended up buying my car was a craigslist person that zero knowledge about the interior option, and was cross shopping base and z06 models which is incomprehensible within the community. I tend to buy interesting cars and every time the car I vastly overestimated how desirable the "rare" features are. One time I had a Taurus SHO that I was selling and the guy had never heard of an SHO but just wanted a stickshift which you can't find on any other Taurus. But I never sold on forums, always to the "outside world". I do think that you can get the premiums for those rare features on the forums but I have learned that it's not the end all be all. If you do have a unicorn car you are definitely best served selling it to the right community (aka forum people) |
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09-03-2018, 08:56 PM | #37 | |
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Hell, the popularity of the heavier E93 proves that these cars mostly aren't bought by hardcore enthusiasts. The VAST majority of these cars have never seen a track and never will, so to wax poetic about helmet space and lighter curb weight is something reserved pretty exclusively to these kinds of forums.
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09-04-2018, 11:17 AM | #38 |
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Slicktop here, slicktop preferred. just one less thing to break is my primary reason, "exclusivity" (real or perceived) isn't a huge deal to me. Personally, if my car ever gets hail damage, I'll be retrofitting a CF roof for sure lol
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09-04-2018, 11:26 AM | #39 |
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I’m curious if a slicktop or ZCP gives a bigger performance advantage. Weight loss helps in all aspects of performance and we know the ZCP differences are minor. Neither is noticeable on the street but here we are, people love or hate ZCP, they are either objective and willing to modify, or just prefer the best starting point that BMW created.
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09-04-2018, 11:29 AM | #40 | |
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EDIT: Note that although it will be faster, the difference will be very small (obviously).
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09-04-2018, 01:23 PM | #41 |
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^ For sure, since the ZCP does nothing for straight line performance. Even in the turns, though, 40 lbs from the roof would be comparable to a 1/2'' drop, I'd expect. Basically it makes sense that those who care about things like ZCP will also care about a slicktop.
Most buyers won't care about ZCP either, but that doesn't mean they're cheaper. Supply and demand is all relative. Yes most buyers wont care or will like a sunroof. But if that's 80% of the buyers and 90% of the cars have a sunroof, that would have positive pricing effects on the slicktops. Yes "only" 20% of buyers care about that, but they're fighting over only 10% of the cars. I am making up the numbers but you'll all get my point. It's like LSB now on the E46. Not many people want LSB, but enough do and there are few enough of them that they are among the most expensive now. |
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09-04-2018, 01:40 PM | #42 | |
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If you narrow it down to LCI, that's only 952 slicktops to choose from. Narrow it further to 2011 slicktops, etc, etc. If one is in the market for a low mileage 2011 slicktop, it doesn't take too many potential buyers to create a strong bid for such cars given how few cars are available.
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09-04-2018, 02:05 PM | #43 |
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True that, and the nerdier the enthusiast, the less they care about objective differences or ordinary value propositions (the sunroof car may be 99.99% of the slicktop car, but they are not willing to pay 99.99% of the price for it). They want what they want and they will pay for it, a lot like the ZCP submarket actually.
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09-10-2018, 06:22 PM | #44 | |
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Sure, who WANTS a sunroof??? |
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