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09-08-2022, 03:37 PM | #265 | |
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We should continue to move in this direction, but lay off the false advertising. We have all these people running around in EV's thinking the are carbon free, while they charge their cars at night with carbon power because off-peak is cheaper power. They are fooling themselves. Again, we should continue to move in this direction, but lay off the false advertising. |
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09-08-2022, 07:08 PM | #266 | ||
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An ICE has pretty much one source of energy: fossil fuels. An EV has multiple sources: wind, solar, coal, nuclear etc... So it really depends on how we source our electricity. With the EV with have choices, some better than others. With the ICE, we really only have one choice.
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09-08-2022, 07:16 PM | #267 | |
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The Salina Formation was formed during the Silurian period that spans 24 million years. How long did it take for the Salina Formation to form, and how much has it changed in the 400 million years since?
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09-08-2022, 07:34 PM | #268 | |
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So climate change is natural. But the problem is that we are changing it towards a environment that is less hospitable to us. While this might have happened naturally over the course of thousands or millions of years, we are doing it at a faster rate. Now, the rate at which we reach inhospitable levels is debated by both sides of the argument. Inexplicably the line is drawn on political parties, which should tell us, no matter your affiliation or stance on the issue, that political ideals have taken priority over objective facts in this case. That's pretty foolish of us IMHO. There is something fundamentally wrong here. Regardless, if we can influence climate change, regardless of how small, why are we okay with making it less hospitable instead of more hospitable? Economy? Convenience? Denial? Difficulty? I think the answer is a personal one. Ok, let's take "climate change" out of the equation then, because we can't even agree if that is real or not for some reason (ahem, political). Let's just go with something tangible and immediate. I can start my EV in a closed garage and not worry about dying from the exhaust fumes. I can't say the same about an ICE. Doesn't it make sense, then, that we should probably not be pumping it into the air? We live in a closed ecosystem after all. This stuff doesn't just drift off into space, out of sight and out of mind. If we can power EVs with renewable energy without relying on coal, isn't that overall just better for our lungs?
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09-08-2022, 07:46 PM | #269 | ||
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And look what Toba did. |
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09-08-2022, 07:58 PM | #270 | ||
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I could live with that, if we put very high efficiency ICE's and plug in hybrids in the same category. Legislators don't seem to want to do that.
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https://8billiontrees.com/carbon-off...ar-calculator/ given the high percentage of EV's charged at night (over 90% in many studies), they are potentially worse than ICE's. They certainly aren't hitting the target many aim for. There was a recent article on the new Hummer EV< it produces more c02 per mile driven than a standard ICE chevy malibu. That is not progress at all Quote:
We can regulate ourselves into compliance, but we can't cheat the laws of physics. It will get ugly if we don't align these great ideas. Last edited by chad86tsi; 09-08-2022 at 08:28 PM.. |
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09-08-2022, 08:27 PM | #271 | ||||
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What comes first, supply or demand? Demand comes first, then supply. That's Economics 101. If the demand for electricity increases, "someone" will make it because it will be profitable. On the other hand, if there was no ICE ban, then there will likely not be an increase in demand. Why would anyone bank a billion dollar industry on supply, if there is no demand? You need something more concrete. The ICE ban is a pretty concrete way to increase demand.
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09-08-2022, 08:38 PM | #272 | |
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I work on the supply side of this simple equation, there will be a shortage in a lot of areas if we move forward with all these plans as proposed. Shortage = profits to the supplier, and high cost and chaos on the buyer side. That's Economics 102. It's quite simple when the supplier can't ramp up supply as fast as demand rises, and rates increase = higher profits, there is little motive to increase supply as they see diminishing returns when they try to ease shortfalls. These relationships aren't always linear. Will it equalize? probably. How long? I'd hate to guess and I don't want to see what it looks like. Anyone that watches gas process rise and fall understands these simple facts. Even Enron got in on some of that action in the power industry a few decades ago. |
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09-08-2022, 08:40 PM | #273 |
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09-08-2022, 09:01 PM | #274 | |
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Regardless, this doesn't negate the rule that demand (or the confidence of the future existence of demand) must exist to incentivize production of supply. While high demand and short supply will drive up prices and profit per unit, we all know from history that net profits increase with higher volume, even with smaller margins because high prices limit access/sales.
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09-08-2022, 09:17 PM | #275 | |
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Again, I'd like to emphasize the flexibility of the EV, which has 3 options on this graph, while each ICE variation is limited to one each.
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09-08-2022, 10:11 PM | #276 | |||
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I don't think rate of change is a "recent" development. Wasn't it always in the essence of what climate change is all along, even if it wasn't expressly said or defined? Regardless, for argument's sake let's say it is a new argument and we changed what "climate change" means in response to debate. The function of debate and progress is change. Changing ideas to get closer to the "truth". If we never changed our theories, we would still have the same theories we had thousands of years ago. As understanding changes, so do our ideas, and that is the backbone of progress. I can see how some people think that is "back pedalling", and an indication of a weak theory. On the contrary, Science is largely about admitting when we were wrong or not completely right, and then correcting ourselves. That is progress. After all, once we assume we are 100% right, we are no longer able to learn on that subject. Rigidity is death in more than one sense of the word. Quote:
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Essentially, you overlooked how anthropogenic such an event actually is because you only questioned if the rain itself was anthropogenic, instead of all the components involved in the scenario you described. So isn't there here is a chance, no matter how small, that there is something that we have possibly overlooked when considering if events are anthropogenic or not, including climate change?
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09-08-2022, 10:45 PM | #277 | |
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There are different ICE options too, lots of them. They all use petroleum based fuel, but not all are equal in C02 per mile. If California mandated all EV's -or- MPG over 45, then there would be some potential C02 parity but more choice for consumers, and less load/stress on the grid. Night charging = no solar, which is where most of California's renewable energy comes from. Night charging = not very green energy - mostly carbon. Look at the caliso link I posted a page or so ago and you can see the power mix by the minute in that market. |
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09-08-2022, 10:53 PM | #278 | |
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More and more new residential constructions are already adding solar panels and batteries to their homes. I think in the future, this will be as common as AC units.
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09-08-2022, 10:56 PM | #279 | |
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^ this was caused by an inability to produce, not unwillingness. Same will happen in the power industry if we move too much load onto the system too quickly. Scaling such operations takes decades. Will stability ever return? some day. Until then? brownouts and "market adjustment" pricing. The question is, is it worth it, and if so, does it (demand) have to change that quickly? |
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09-08-2022, 10:59 PM | #280 |
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This is true for the moment, but already Tesla charging station banks in Europe have begun popping up with Powerwall battery installations so they can capture the solar from the day. It won't be long before this is common and distributed.
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09-08-2022, 11:02 PM | #281 | |
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There are times when California is a net exporter of energy, but never at night. If there were a rule that EV's can only be charged by local Solar (your home, or nearby by plant), I'd have no complaints about all cars being converted to EV, effective immediately. |
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09-08-2022, 11:04 PM | #282 | |
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09-08-2022, 11:14 PM | #283 | |
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Before the 2035 mandate, will all Californians have solar and power walls, or is that the part "somebody else" will take care of, "later"... There are ~14 million cars registered, and 2 million new cars per year sold in California alone. That's a lot of power walls to install. They will need to install 150,000 per year, every year to get ready in 13 years. It also takes 5-10 panels per 40 miles driven per car, where will all those panels go? I mean, we already know we are for sure doing this in 2035 in California, so surely they have all the logistics mapped out, and you guys know what the answers are to how they are going to do all stuff, right? If not, you see why I have a problem with this plan. |
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09-09-2022, 12:00 AM | #284 | ||
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09-09-2022, 12:02 AM | #285 | ||
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09-09-2022, 12:06 AM | #286 | ||
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Also, profit is high because of demand. Bet your bottom dollar car manufacturers still want volume. Once they get it, prices will stabilize as supply meets demand. Again, they want volume.
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