Hpde track pad

derbo · 01-12-2021, 06:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vybz

As the name implies, Endurance pads are designed for longevity and consistency. dparm derbo Now that I look back at your definition, "Those are designed for sustained high-temp use" I'm almost positive you guys are confusing endurance pads with sprint pads.

You are definitely right that pads are not made the same! I think it really depends what is needed in a high-temp situation, the endurance pad keeps consistent torque, while the sprint pad gives you higher torque.

The point I was trying to get across is that the OP is on PS4S tires and an endurance pad may not get enough heat generated by that tire to further warrant anything with higher torque like a PFC11.

PFC08 has a low initial torque and keeps going up but very consistent gradual slope.
PFC11 definitely has more bite

RSL29 drops as the temps go up

Bartledoo · 01-12-2021, 10:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by derbo

You are definitely right that pads are not made the same! I think it really depends what is needed in a high-temp situation, the endurance pad keeps consistent torque, while the sprint pad gives you higher torque.

The point I was trying to get across is that the OP is on PS4S tires and an endurance pad may not get enough heat generated by that tire to further warrant anything with higher torque like a PFC11.

PFC08 has a low initial torque and keeps going up but very consistent gradual slope.
PFC11 definitely has more bite

RSL29 drops as the temps go up

That set of graphs definitely doesn't show the entire picture. At a certain temp the torque falls off of a cliff and the car goes off the track. That temp is lower for the 08 than the 11.

derbo · 01-12-2021, 10:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bartledoo

That set of graphs definitely doesn't show the entire picture. At a certain temp the torque falls off of a cliff and the car goes off the track. That temp is lower for the 08 than the 11.

Right, but we are talking the spectrum at the lower end, as I'm pretty sure the PS4S will overheat before the brake pads do, I was unable to overheat the PFC08 brakes at Laguna Seca on my PS4S, the tires gave out before the brakes did.

Bartledoo · 01-12-2021, 11:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by derbo

Right, but we are talking the spectrum at the lower end, as I'm pretty sure the PS4S will overheat before the brake pads do, I was unable to overheat the PFC08 brakes at Laguna Seca on my PS4S, the tires gave out before the brakes did.

True.

derbo · 01-12-2021, 11:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bartledoo

Quote:

Originally Posted by derbo

Right, but we are talking the spectrum at the lower end, as I'm pretty sure the PS4S will overheat before the brake pads do, I was unable to overheat the PFC08 brakes at Laguna Seca on my PS4S, the tires gave out before the brakes did.

True.

I do agree with you that these pads fall off a Cliff when you do reach that limit tho!

Bartledoo · 01-13-2021, 02:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by derbo

I do agree with you that these pads fall off a Cliff when you do reach that limit tho!

Yea, I was just looking a bit further ahead than op really needed in the case.

slowdown_dan · 01-13-2021, 06:58 AM

Well now that OP is likely thoroughly confused... You guys sure made a mess out of suggesting a basic DE track pad to someone on 300tw tires.

dparm · 01-13-2021, 10:07 AM

You can't compare those mu versus temperature charts between vendors. They're only useful for comparing compounds within the same vendor, similar to how UTQG numbers work.

Sorry for any confusion...what I meant by endurance pad is that they are designed to be run very hot for very long periods. If you can't keep sufficient heat in them, they suck. They will sacrifice some braking performance for longevity because a race team doesn't want to waste time changing pads multiple times.

Based on that PFC graph, I wouldn't run an 11 on a car using street tires because as it heats up, you will just get into the ABS more and more, meaning you lose all modulation. The 01 or 08 look better because they provide fairly consistent mu even at "lower" temps, and lower ultimate mu that won't lock the brakes every single time you breathe on the pedal. Extremely high mu is not always what you want.

Here's Hawk, BTW. Look at how flat the 60 is at almost all temps versus a 70 that needs you to maintain a certain amount of heat.

dparm · 01-13-2021, 10:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by butte2butte

Well now that OP is likely thoroughly confused... You guys sure made a mess out of suggesting a basic DE track pad to someone on 300tw tires.

No offense to anyone on this forum, as the track section is definitely well above average when it comes to getting advice, but OP's original post was quite vague. More information is needed to make an objective recommendation. This is why I was trying to go down the route of what their experience is, car setup, tracks they plan to frequent, etc.

Blindly recommending a brand or specific pad sorta starts things off on the wrong foot.

Bartledoo · 01-13-2021, 01:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dparm

No offense to anyone on this forum, as the track section is definitely well above average when it comes to getting advice, but OP's original post was quite vague. More information is needed to make an objective recommendation. This is why I was trying to go down the route of what their experience is, car setup, tracks they plan to frequent, etc.

Blindly recommending a brand or specific pad sorta starts things off on the wrong foot.

I'm deeply offended! Actually, I never made any recs so I'm safe haha. I don't have enough different pad experience. Most people just stick with one company if it works, so it's hard to get a lot of diverse feedback.

sc_tr0jan_m3 · 01-13-2021, 05:20 PM

Honest truth for the OP... looks like you're running a stock caliper so just grab some hawks off fcp euro and warranty the crap out of them until you get into more track focused tires.

dparm · 01-13-2021, 05:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sc_tr0jan_m3

Honest truth for the OP... looks like you're running a stock caliper so just grab some hawks off fcp euro and warranty the crap out of them until you get into more track focused tires.

If they stock the Hawk DTC-60 this is probably a pretty safe bet.

derbo · 01-13-2021, 05:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dparm

If they stock the Hawk DTC-60 this is probably a pretty safe bet.

They actually do and this is what I do for my wife's M2

Wish they sold ST60 ones. lol

edit:

Fronts
https://www.fcpeuro.com/products/bmw...awk-hb551g-748

Rears
https://www.fcpeuro.com/products/bmw...awk-hb630g-626

01-13-2021, 06:58 AM	#29
slowdown_dan First Lieutenant 284 Rep 304 Posts Drives: e93 Join Date: Jan 2020 Location: FLORIDA iTrader: (0)	Well now that OP is likely thoroughly confused... You guys sure made a mess out of suggesting a basic DE track pad to someone on 300tw tires.
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01-13-2021, 10:07 AM	#30
dparm Stop the hate, get a V8 3928 Rep 8,631 Posts Drives: C7 Corvette, Spec E46, G87 M2 Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: Frisco, TX iTrader: (1)	You can't compare those mu versus temperature charts between vendors. They're only useful for comparing compounds within the same vendor, similar to how UTQG numbers work. Sorry for any confusion...what I meant by endurance pad is that they are designed to be run very hot for very long periods. If you can't keep sufficient heat in them, they suck. They will sacrifice some braking performance for longevity because a race team doesn't want to waste time changing pads multiple times. Based on that PFC graph, I wouldn't run an 11 on a car using street tires because as it heats up, you will just get into the ABS more and more, meaning you lose all modulation. The 01 or 08 look better because they provide fairly consistent mu even at "lower" temps, and lower ultimate mu that won't lock the brakes every single time you breathe on the pedal. Extremely high mu is not always what you want. Here's Hawk, BTW. Look at how flat the 60 is at almost all temps versus a 70 that needs you to maintain a certain amount of heat. __________________ Now: 2017 Corvette Grand Sport, 2001 BMW Spec E46 race car, 2025 BMW M2 Past: 2011.5 M3 sedan ZCP Last edited by dparm; 01-13-2021 at 11:02 AM..
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01-13-2021, 05:20 PM	#33
sc_tr0jan_m3 Lieutenant Colonel 526 Rep 1,730 Posts Drives: 2018 Grigio Telesto F80 M3 DCT Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Dallas, TX iTrader: (0)	Honest truth for the OP... looks like you're running a stock caliper so just grab some hawks off fcp euro and warranty the crap out of them until you get into more track focused tires. __________________ 2018 Grigio Telesto F80 M3 DCT \| :: Bone Stock :: 2004 Titanium Silver E46 M3 6 Speed \| :: Track Car ::
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