Leased BMW (under warranty) has bent valves, BMW refuses to cover repairs.

ricerlol · 10-22-2015, 06:28 PM

Hello M3Post, I will try to be as concise and clear as possible in describing my current situation involving a lease takeover of an E92 M3. Simply put: The M3 has "bent valves" and may have further issues, dealer wants $2500 for a teardown of the engine to find further issues. The $2500 does not include any repair to the engine at all, it is just for diagnosis.

I acquired my M3 in July 2015 through a lease takeover, the car is a 2013 model and the 3 year lease ends in January 2016. So the car is still under warranty. The M3 has the DCT transmission and about 23k miles on the odometer.

When I picked up my car, I noticed little things that indicated that the first lessee did not take very good care of the car. However, the fact that it was under warranty put my mind at ease.

About a month after picking up my M3, I put a full Akrapovic Evolution exhaust system on it and was living life!

A little over a month after getting the Akra Evo system, I decided that it was not enough and that I had to have the full GT4 system. This is where the problems begin.

A day after getting the Akra GT4 system installed on the car, it began idling very roughly at a red light and went into limp mode. I had no idea what limp mode was at the time, so I contacted McKenna BMW and set up an appointment to have them look at my M3.

My SA at McKenna said that they checked the codes that the car was throwing and found a "PRECAT O2 BANK1 SENSOR" failure. He advised me that they replaced the sensor and cleared the codes; but the code returned as soon as they started the car again. I was then told by the SA that he had seen this problem before and that the Akra systems for the E9X M3 were very "unusual" and sometimes required a tune for the car to work properly. Naturally, I took his advice and went to get an ESS tune from European Auto Source (I just wanted to drive my M3 again at this point!).

When EAS received my car, they ran the codes and stated that cylinders 1-7 were misfiring. I told my SA this and he said that it was normal and that those codes could be traced to O2 sensors. After EAS flashed the tune onto my car, they stated that cylinders 1-4 were still misfiring and that the dealer would have to figure it out. I paid EAS $966 for a tune that my SA said he was "99.5%" sure would fix the problem, I was getting irritated at this point.

After taking my car back to McKenna, I was told that all "diagnosis covered under warranty" had been performed and that I would have to pay an additional $300 for them to diagnose the problem. I wasn't happy, but I didn't have any other choice. I was also told at this point that they had pulled the "DME archives" and found evidence of abuse logged during the previous lessee's time with the car. My SA also said the previous lessee did a "hard reset" of the DME as evidenced by "broken paint seals".

A few days later, I called McKenna because my SA had not contacted me in a few days. I was put in contact with the service manager who then told me that the M3 was suffering from "bent valves". He proceeded to tell me that I was looking at $2500 for a tear down of the engine and that "who knows what we'll find during the tear down". This answer literally scared the sh*t out of me.

At this point, McKenna has told me that no repairs will be covered under warranty due to the "evidence of abuse". As far as the abuse goes, they said it was due to "over-revving" (I know that I have not over-revved the car while it has been in my possession) and that the DME had date and time logs of when abuse happened. They said they cannot release the logs without subpoenas from attorneys.

Does what my SA said make sense to those with mechanical knowledge (please excuse the quotations in the post, but this is my first BMW and I have no technical knowledge of cars)? And do I have any options to fight for getting the repairs under warranty or am I out of luck? The car is currently a lease and BMW is saying that I have to fix all issues with the car if I intend to return it in January 2016; my other option is doing a lease buy-out of the car at full price (this will not include any repairs and the car will be "as-is").

Thank you for taking the time to read my post guys, any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Please let me know if you have any questions or how I may be of help.

Sered · 10-22-2015, 08:55 PM

Bent valves? What's their proof? I doubt that. Did you ever replace your plugs?

kawasaki00 · 10-22-2015, 09:14 PM

Good luck bending valves on the dct, all you have to do is a leak-down test. Get a gauge, pull the plugs and valve covers. Rotate each cylinder till intake and exhaust lobe is on base circle. Piston position doesn't matter. If you see like 30 percent there is a problem. Test this and report back. It is just coincidence with the exhaust, that has nothing to do with it.

kawasaki00 · 10-22-2015, 09:19 PM

And since you are in socal call Mike Benvo. For a small fee he can hook into the car and see everything. He is a jam up guy and will shoot it to you straight

FFM · 10-22-2015, 09:34 PM

Go to a different dealer?

Never heard of one trying to revoke a warranty repair over "abuse" by a previous owner with "hidden" data logs of which they refuse to show you.

jcolley · 10-22-2015, 09:57 PM

There are no date or time stamps in the DME because the mss60 DME doesn't know what the date and time is. . The DME communicates with the rest of the car only over PT-CAN and date time are not broadcast over PT-CAN. The only parameter which the DME can correlate to time is km.

The DME does log number of times that a few RPM targets have been hit, but there is no km field on those records. Anyone with access to INPA can view these in the mss60 submenus.

The service manager is bluffing and apparently doesn't have the technical knowledge to back up the bluff

8k3 · 10-22-2015, 10:19 PM

holy crap they are full of it, also my dealer in Austin had my car two weeks looking for an issue and didn't charge me a dime for diagnosis

FFM · 10-22-2015, 10:28 PM

I don't think they can charge you. The vehicle is under warranty. Fight this to the death.

I worked at a dealer straight out of college, and have never heard of something like this. Truly bizarre.

The SA recommended aftermarket software for Christ sake. He literally recommended something that should technically void the warranty. Yet revokes coverage for mythical data from a previous owner. WTF.

WickedE93 · 10-23-2015, 01:17 AM

Take it to another dealer bro, McKenna BMW sucks the big one. Try Pacific BMW in Glendale. I've gotten. 100x better service there. Last time I went to McKenna they over filled my car with oil. Thank god the car was okay..

BMRLVR · 10-23-2015, 05:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jcolley

There are no date or time stamps in the DME because the mss60 DME doesn't know what the date and time is. . The DME communicates with the rest of the car only over PT-CAN and date time are not broadcast over PT-CAN. The only parameter which the DME can correlate to time is km.

The DME does log number of times that a few RPM targets have been hit, but there is no km field on those records. Anyone with access to INPA can view these in the mss60 submenus.

The service manager is bluffing and apparently doesn't have the technical knowledge to back up the bluff

There is no date or time stamps, but kilometres ( or miles ) are logged with the code.

pbonsalb · 10-23-2015, 06:18 AM

Since the dealer is giving you a hard time and you may have to threaten the dealer with litigation, you should have the DME independently examined. The dealer has admitted to abuse by the previous owner, and should not have leased the car or sold it with a warranty. This is something it could and should have known at the time of lease. Having someone like Mike Benvo read the DME for the abuse would show the mileage at which it occurred and whether it was prior to your ownership. If it was, you are in the clear. As for the exhaust and tune, the dealer was aware. The dealer even recommended the tune. A dealer recommending something should tell you that following its recommendation would void your warranty if that was the case.

A good lawyer would have fun with this case at trial, but trial would cost more than this case is worth and you do not typically recover your legal fees if you win. It is worth getting the ECU data and putting your statement in writing to the dealer so the dealer knows you know the facts.

jcolley · 10-23-2015, 08:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BMRLVR

There is no date or time stamps, but kilometres ( or miles ) are logged with the code.

I stand corrected, just looked at mine. I was remembering a second screen which only showed the count of the number of times it happened.

Again OP, find someone with INPA, read out the overspeeds and show your dealer the mileage was prior to your purchase.

bryan292009 · 10-23-2015, 08:56 AM

I would fight this, all the way!

mrMTB · 10-23-2015, 09:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pbonsalb

Since the dealer is giving you a hard time and you may have to threaten the dealer with litigation, you should have the DME independently examined. The dealer has admitted to abuse by the previous owner, and should not have leased the car or sold it with a warranty. This is something it could and should have known at the time of lease.

This was a lease assumption; that transaction is between the original leaser and the OP, not the dealer. He may have a case against the person from whom he acquired it, but certainly not the dealer- with regards to the tampering.

trustbran · 10-23-2015, 04:13 PM

Damn sucks! I hope you get this resolved so you can get back in the car and drive!

Bomiz · 10-23-2015, 06:01 PM

who's your SA at mckenna?

Killerfish2012 · 10-24-2015, 10:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ricerlol

When EAS received my car, they ran the codes and stated that cylinders 1-7 were misfiring. I told my SA this and he said that it was normal and that those codes could be traced to O2 sensors. After EAS flashed the tune onto my car, they stated that cylinders 1-4 were still misfiring and that the dealer would have to figure it out. I paid EAS $966 for a tune that my SA said he was "99.5%" sure would fix the problem, I was getting irritated at this point.

OP, read the highlight in bold. The second this was done, you voided your vehicles warranty, as far as BMW North America is concerned. Your dealership was required per the protocol to "flag your car in the warranty system." Please proceed to your nearest indy shop for further assistance.

FFM · 10-24-2015, 02:01 PM

That was advised by his damn SA lol. Don't you see the irony.

cenix · 10-24-2015, 02:18 PM

I want to know who the SA is, too at McKenna. Aren't they supposed to be mod-friendly and advertise as such on the forums?

BPMSport · 10-24-2015, 04:55 PM

PM me your VIN and I'll let you know if the car is flagged. Good luck with the repair. Is crazy to say that a tune would ever fix misfires, stock exhaust or not...

Fully Catless cars should have no more codes than two for catalyst efficiency and this will never cause engine malfunction or limp mode.

10-22-2015, 06:28 PM	#1
ricerlol Enlisted Member 6 Rep 33 Posts Drives: '13 Mineral White E92 M3 Join Date: Jun 2015 Location: SoCal iTrader: (0)	Leased BMW (under warranty) has bent valves, BMW refuses to cover repairs. Hello M3Post, I will try to be as concise and clear as possible in describing my current situation involving a lease takeover of an E92 M3. Simply put: The M3 has "bent valves" and may have further issues, dealer wants $2500 for a teardown of the engine to find further issues. The $2500 does not include any repair to the engine at all, it is just for diagnosis. I acquired my M3 in July 2015 through a lease takeover, the car is a 2013 model and the 3 year lease ends in January 2016. So the car is still under warranty. The M3 has the DCT transmission and about 23k miles on the odometer. When I picked up my car, I noticed little things that indicated that the first lessee did not take very good care of the car. However, the fact that it was under warranty put my mind at ease. About a month after picking up my M3, I put a full Akrapovic Evolution exhaust system on it and was living life! A little over a month after getting the Akra Evo system, I decided that it was not enough and that I had to have the full GT4 system. This is where the problems begin. A day after getting the Akra GT4 system installed on the car, it began idling very roughly at a red light and went into limp mode. I had no idea what limp mode was at the time, so I contacted McKenna BMW and set up an appointment to have them look at my M3. My SA at McKenna said that they checked the codes that the car was throwing and found a "PRECAT O2 BANK1 SENSOR" failure. He advised me that they replaced the sensor and cleared the codes; but the code returned as soon as they started the car again. I was then told by the SA that he had seen this problem before and that the Akra systems for the E9X M3 were very "unusual" and sometimes required a tune for the car to work properly. Naturally, I took his advice and went to get an ESS tune from European Auto Source (I just wanted to drive my M3 again at this point!). When EAS received my car, they ran the codes and stated that cylinders 1-7 were misfiring. I told my SA this and he said that it was normal and that those codes could be traced to O2 sensors. After EAS flashed the tune onto my car, they stated that cylinders 1-4 were still misfiring and that the dealer would have to figure it out. I paid EAS $966 for a tune that my SA said he was "99.5%" sure would fix the problem, I was getting irritated at this point. After taking my car back to McKenna, I was told that all "diagnosis covered under warranty" had been performed and that I would have to pay an additional $300 for them to diagnose the problem. I wasn't happy, but I didn't have any other choice. I was also told at this point that they had pulled the "DME archives" and found evidence of abuse logged during the previous lessee's time with the car. My SA also said the previous lessee did a "hard reset" of the DME as evidenced by "broken paint seals". A few days later, I called McKenna because my SA had not contacted me in a few days. I was put in contact with the service manager who then told me that the M3 was suffering from "bent valves". He proceeded to tell me that I was looking at $2500 for a tear down of the engine and that "who knows what we'll find during the tear down". This answer literally scared the sh*t out of me. At this point, McKenna has told me that no repairs will be covered under warranty due to the "evidence of abuse". As far as the abuse goes, they said it was due to "over-revving" (I know that I have not over-revved the car while it has been in my possession) and that the DME had date and time logs of when abuse happened. They said they cannot release the logs without subpoenas from attorneys. Does what my SA said make sense to those with mechanical knowledge (please excuse the quotations in the post, but this is my first BMW and I have no technical knowledge of cars)? And do I have any options to fight for getting the repairs under warranty or am I out of luck? The car is currently a lease and BMW is saying that I have to fix all issues with the car if I intend to return it in January 2016; my other option is doing a lease buy-out of the car at full price (this will not include any repairs and the car will be "as-is"). Thank you for taking the time to read my post guys, any advice would be greatly appreciated. Please let me know if you have any questions or how I may be of help.
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10-22-2015, 08:55 PM	#2
Sered Major 154 Rep 1,201 Posts Drives: 08 E90 335i Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: Melbourne, FL iTrader: (3)	Bent valves? What's their proof? I doubt that. Did you ever replace your plugs?
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10-22-2015, 09:14 PM	#3
kawasaki00 Lieutenant Colonel 244 Rep 1,673 Posts Drives: SG-E92 ESS-650 BPM Tune Join Date: May 2012 Location: Charlotte NC iTrader: (11)	Good luck bending valves on the dct, all you have to do is a leak-down test. Get a gauge, pull the plugs and valve covers. Rotate each cylinder till intake and exhaust lobe is on base circle. Piston position doesn't matter. If you see like 30 percent there is a problem. Test this and report back. It is just coincidence with the exhaust, that has nothing to do with it. __________________ Electronics Junkie, Engine Builder.
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10-22-2015, 09:19 PM	#4
kawasaki00 Lieutenant Colonel 244 Rep 1,673 Posts Drives: SG-E92 ESS-650 BPM Tune Join Date: May 2012 Location: Charlotte NC iTrader: (11)	And since you are in socal call Mike Benvo. For a small fee he can hook into the car and see everything. He is a jam up guy and will shoot it to you straight __________________ Electronics Junkie, Engine Builder.
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10-22-2015, 09:34 PM	#5
FFM PLEB R8 62 Rep 288 Posts Drives: B9 SQ5 \| R8 V8 6MT Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Bellingham, WA iTrader: (0)	Go to a different dealer? Never heard of one trying to revoke a warranty repair over "abuse" by a previous owner with "hidden" data logs of which they refuse to show you. __________________ Current: R8 V8 6MT \| B9 SQ5
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10-22-2015, 09:57 PM	#6
jcolley Lieutenant 381 Rep 413 Posts Drives: 328 Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Maine iTrader: (1)	There are no date or time stamps in the DME because the mss60 DME doesn't know what the date and time is. . The DME communicates with the rest of the car only over PT-CAN and date time are not broadcast over PT-CAN. The only parameter which the DME can correlate to time is km. The DME does log number of times that a few RPM targets have been hit, but there is no km field on those records. Anyone with access to INPA can view these in the mss60 submenus. The service manager is bluffing and apparently doesn't have the technical knowledge to back up the bluff
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10-22-2015, 10:19 PM	#7
8k3 Banned 147 Rep 951 Posts Drives: Car Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: Boise, ID iTrader: (1)	holy crap they are full of it, also my dealer in Austin had my car two weeks looking for an issue and didn't charge me a dime for diagnosis
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10-22-2015, 10:28 PM	#8
FFM PLEB R8 62 Rep 288 Posts Drives: B9 SQ5 \| R8 V8 6MT Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Bellingham, WA iTrader: (0)	I don't think they can charge you. The vehicle is under warranty. Fight this to the death. I worked at a dealer straight out of college, and have never heard of something like this. Truly bizarre. The SA recommended aftermarket software for Christ sake. He literally recommended something that should technically void the warranty. Yet revokes coverage for mythical data from a previous owner. WTF. __________________ Current: R8 V8 6MT \| B9 SQ5
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10-23-2015, 01:17 AM	#9
WickedE93 Major 241 Rep 1,131 Posts Drives: White E93 M3 Join Date: Feb 2014 Location: Pico Rivera iTrader: (2)	Take it to another dealer bro, McKenna BMW sucks the big one. Try Pacific BMW in Glendale. I've gotten. 100x better service there. Last time I went to McKenna they over filled my car with oil. Thank god the car was okay..
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10-23-2015, 06:18 AM	#11
pbonsalb Lieutenant General 7679 Rep 13,759 Posts Drives: 18 F90 M5, 99 E36 M3 Turbo Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: New England iTrader: (4)	Since the dealer is giving you a hard time and you may have to threaten the dealer with litigation, you should have the DME independently examined. The dealer has admitted to abuse by the previous owner, and should not have leased the car or sold it with a warranty. This is something it could and should have known at the time of lease. Having someone like Mike Benvo read the DME for the abuse would show the mileage at which it occurred and whether it was prior to your ownership. If it was, you are in the clear. As for the exhaust and tune, the dealer was aware. The dealer even recommended the tune. A dealer recommending something should tell you that following its recommendation would void your warranty if that was the case. A good lawyer would have fun with this case at trial, but trial would cost more than this case is worth and you do not typically recover your legal fees if you win. It is worth getting the ECU data and putting your statement in writing to the dealer so the dealer knows you know the facts.
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10-23-2015, 08:56 AM	#13
bryan292009 First Lieutenant 71 Rep 340 Posts Drives: 2011 E90 M3 W/ ZCP, ZPP, ZCW Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Graffenwoehr, Germany iTrader: (0)	I would fight this, all the way! __________________ E90 M3 W/ ESS VT2-625, Macht Schnell race X-Pipe, UUC Cat-back exhaust, Stoptech ST60
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10-23-2015, 04:13 PM	#15
trustbran Lieutenant 325 Rep 473 Posts Drives: 2009 M3 Join Date: Sep 2015 Location: Guam, Hawaii, SF iTrader: (2)	Damn sucks! I hope you get this resolved so you can get back in the car and drive!
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10-23-2015, 06:01 PM	#16
Bomiz Captain 341 Rep 824 Posts Drives: SS E92 M3 Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: Los Angeles iTrader: (2)	who's your SA at mckenna?
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10-24-2015, 02:01 PM	#18
FFM PLEB R8 62 Rep 288 Posts Drives: B9 SQ5 \| R8 V8 6MT Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Bellingham, WA iTrader: (0)	That was advised by his damn SA lol. Don't you see the irony. __________________ Current: R8 V8 6MT \| B9 SQ5
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10-24-2015, 02:18 PM	#19
cenix Captain 385 Rep 875 Posts Drives: E90 M3 ZCP Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: SoCal iTrader: (5)	I want to know who the SA is, too at McKenna. Aren't they supposed to be mod-friendly and advertise as such on the forums?
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10-24-2015, 04:55 PM	#20
BPMSport BimmerPost Supporting Vendor 3592 Rep 7,300 Posts Drives: 2x Harrop E90 M3, E92 M3, E39 Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: SoCal iTrader: (9) Garage List 2000 BMW M5 [0.00] 1990 BMW 735i Turbo [0.00] 2008 BMW M3 [7.50] 2015 BMW M3 [0.00] 2015 BMW M5 [0.00]	PM me your VIN and I'll let you know if the car is flagged. Good luck with the repair. Is crazy to say that a tune would ever fix misfires, stock exhaust or not... Fully Catless cars should have no more codes than two for catalyst efficiency and this will never cause engine malfunction or limp mode.
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