Man Down! 2008 M3 Rod Bearing Failed

[Killerfish2012]

My '09 E92 M3 last weekend @ 112K miles:

http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1117132

Be sure to check out the video, and leave some comments in my thread, guys!

[BzsBimmer]

Originally Posted by IIAp3x

Okay so the latest is that the warranty company wants copies of the service history...

I just bought the car 2 months ago, but the previous owner did give me all of the receipt history covering the services performed from 26k miles up to current...

How would I obtain the service records prior to 26k? Can any BMW dealership extract that information from a PC?

So I wonder if we did our own maintenance (had receipts to prove purchase of said parts), a 3rd party warranty company can refuse coverage due to
A. No proof that maintenance was actually done
B. No proof that maintenance was done properly

I wonder...
My 60K service is coming due and wonder if it's just better to pay the damn dealer to do the service so I have records.

[IIAp3x]

Originally Posted by Iyzmi

My extended warranty contract states "You must have your vehicle serviced in the following manner every six months or six thousand miles, whichever comes first," and then goes on to mention things like oil changes. "You" and "your" are in bold which I would think means that I am not responsible for any service records prior to my ownership. Does your contract have this stipulation? Can they reasonably expect you to provide records from before you even owned the car? The reason people buy these warranties is to mitigate the risk of buying a used car which may or may not have service records provided to the buyer.

My first response was same... I mean "come on, really!'

BMW here in Pensacola was able to provide my warranty company with a very detail and meticulous service history.. In fact, the service records indicate the oil was changed 7 times, the brake and clutch fluid was flushed twice, the coolant was flushed twice, the intake air filter was changed four times, the cabin filter was changed three times, the spark plugs were changed once, and the coils were changed once... All in 50k miles...

Not to mention all of the small items that were additionally repaired like interior pieces, seat belt extender, keyless entry, differential, etc...

[javarithms]

Honestly, BMW should foot the bill for this repair especially when you consider car has only 50K miles and the service records are meticulous, if not exaggerated.

I can't believe some people are arguing that this is the user's fault for driving the car "hard" when it's cold even though it has cold rev limit protection. Last time I looked the owners manual didn't have a guideline on how to drive the car.

Good luck OP! Hope you get your car fixed and back soon.

[///M Power-Belgium]

Originally Posted by BzsBimmer

So I wonder if we did our own maintenance (had receipts to prove purchase of said parts), a 3rd party warranty company can refuse coverage due to
A. No proof that maintenance was actually done
B. No proof that maintenance was done properly

I wonder...
My 60K service is coming due and wonder if it's just better to pay the damn dealer to do the service so I have records.

Having BMW/Records is always better for the value of the car .

[Upgrade+]

I wonder how another third party warranty like Route 66 would handle this. I've been in the market for an M3 and getting an after market warranty. But with the possibility of a warranty company not covering a catastrophic failure like this has me thinking twice

[IIAp3x]

Originally Posted by nthretourNAFTW

OP, you don't seem to get it. Your car was 49k used when you got it. Only original owners of their car know its full history. There is always a risk in buying a used car, especially a high performance car which requires more stringent break in procedure. Even after break in, the S65 takes a longer time to warm up than most other cars, during that time it is vulnerable.

Consider this also..when people went to their dealerships to testdrive the new e92 M3 during its production years, i believe almost nobody waited for the engine to be warmed up before stepping on it. Think of it, you're testdriving the new m3, even salesman will ask you to do that (i've witnessed it). Well, sorry but that is not ok for racing engines and the s65 is one of the closest to a racing engine you get on a commercial car. The engine then develops a B problem 50k miles later.

I believe almost every single M3 that has been on a dealership parking lot when through some abused before being fully broken in.

For me owning the m3 was buying it straight from the factory or from an original owner who factory ordered it. It was one of the first decision i made when i got interested in the car.

What's not to get about it? My car was special ordered from the factory also...

First... A 50k mile M3 should be a rock-solid car with minimal concerns... Every M3 owner I know loves their car and does not abuse it... In fact, most of them take better care of their car than most people...

Second... You are saying that BMW M3 engines are so delicate that cold-start test drives are shaving significant years off of the life of the car... These aren't hand-built Ferraris, they are production cars... Sure they are high-strung V8's, but they are not race cars.. They are built for the street, for the every-day commuter who desires a higher quality ride, for the average joe who wants a better than average performing sports car... Last time I checked, my car came with a bluetoothed-nav-high-end-audio system and air conditioning... There is a reason that modifying an M3 to race on the track voids the warranty, and that's because it was not built to be a race car... If I wanted a race car, I would have bought an Ultima GTR, not an M3...

Third... If the M3 is so delicate that it can't be cold-started and test driven without causing substantial damage, then why even bother mass-producing... Better yet, let's just throw the BMW reputation out the window and build cars that only last less than 100k miles like Range Rover...

In this day in age, a sports car should hold up 200k miles easily if taken care of... In fact, that is why I have always driven "M" cars- because they are reliable and fast... If the "bearing issue" really boils down to "cold start- test drives," we are all wasting our money...

Today's consumers not only expect a higher quality production car, but they also expect it to last a long time- even through the 2-dozen cold start test drives that a car my incur in its adolescent period of life...

Do you really think that BMW's 4.0 V8 is that much more sophisticated than the Z06 Corvette 5.7, The Porsche 911 3.6, C63 6.3, etc... No its not... Yet these cars endure the same cold-start test drives as any BMW M3 without bearing failures and reduction in reliability and longevity of life...

I am certain that every M3 owner would expect at least 150K miles of pleasurable life out of their car if maintained well- regardless of how many times the car was test driven cold...

BMW makes production cars, and they have a reputation of making great production cars that last when maintained!

I bought an E92 M3 because I have owned an E36 and E46 M3 and loved them!!! I maintained them meticulously and they rewarded me with years and years of pleasurable driving experiences for a very long time and hundreds of thousands of miles...

As an affirmed and avid BMW lover, I expect and demand the same experience with the E92 M3...

[From5ToM24]

Originally Posted by Upgrade+

I wonder how another third party warranty like Route 66 would handle this. I've been in the market for an M3 and getting an after market warranty. But with the possibility of a warranty company not covering a catastrophic failure like this has me thinking twice

^ this is exactly how i feel

[///M Power-Belgium]

Originally Posted by IIAp3x

What's not to get about it? My car was special ordered from the factory also...

First... A 50k mile M3 should be a rock-solid car with minimal concerns... Every M3 owner I know loves their car and does not abuse it... In fact, most of them take better care of their car than most people...

Second... You are saying that BMW M3 engines are so delicate that cold-start test drives are shaving significant years off of the life of the car... These aren't hand-built Ferraris, they are production cars... Sure they are high-strung V8's, but they are not race cars.. They are built for the street, for the every-day commuter who desires a higher quality ride, for the average joe who wants a better than average performing sports car... Last time I checked, my car came with a bluetoothed-nav-high-end-audio system and air conditioning... There is a reason that modifying an M3 to race on the track voids the warranty, and that's because it was not built to be a race car... If I wanted a race car, I would have bought an Ultima GTR, not an M3...

Third... If the M3 is so delicate that it can't be cold-started and test driven without causing substantial damage, then why even bother mass-producing... Better yet, let's just throw the BMW reputation out the window and build cars that only last less than 100k miles like Range Rover...

In this day in age, a sports car should hold up 200k miles easily if taken care of... In fact, that is why I have always driven "M" cars- because they are reliable and fast... If the "bearing issue" really boils down to "cold start- test drives," we are all wasting our money...

Today's consumers not only expect a higher quality production car, but they also expect it to last a long time- even through the 2-dozen cold start test drives that a car my incur in its adolescent period of life...

Do you really think that BMW's 4.0 V8 is that much more sophisticated than the Z06 Corvette 5.7, The Porsche 911 3.6, C63 6.3, etc... No its not... Yet these cars endure the same cold-start test drives as any BMW M3 without bearing failures and reduction in reliability and longevity of life...

I am certain that every M3 owner would expect at least 150K miles of pleasurable life out of their car if maintained well- regardless of how many times the car was test driven cold...

BMW makes production cars, and they have a reputation of making great production cars that last when maintained!

I bought an E92 M3 because I have owned an E36 and E46 M3 and loved them!!! I maintained them meticulously and they rewarded me with years and years of pleasurable driving experiences for a very long time and hundreds of thousands of miles...

As an affirmed and avid BMW lover, I expect and demand the same experience with the E92 M3...

100% agreed with you !
It's not our fault , but a design flaw by BMW !
And the picture below shows what they have done in the last 10 years...

[BzsBimmer]

Originally Posted by From5ToM24

^ this is exactly how i feel

Originally Posted by Upgrade+

I wonder how another third party warranty like Route 66 would handle this. I've been in the market for an M3 and getting an after market warranty. But with the possibility of a warranty company not covering a catastrophic failure like this has me thinking twice

Yup which is why I'm asking. I actually have Maxcare however I have never read of anyone using Maxcare with RB issue.

[s85e90]

Originally Posted by BzsBimmer

So I wonder if we did our own maintenance (had receipts to prove purchase of said parts), a 3rd party warranty company can refuse coverage due to
A. No proof that maintenance was actually done
B. No proof that maintenance was done properly

I wonder...
My 60K service is coming due and wonder if it's just better to pay the damn dealer to do the service so I have records.

Yes they can and it's been documented before. Records are important for coverage.

[IIAp3x]

Originally Posted by javarithms

Honestly, BMW should foot the bill for this repair especially when you consider car has only 50K miles and the service records are meticulous, if not exaggerated.

I can't believe some people are arguing that this is the user's fault for driving the car "hard" when it's cold even though it has cold rev limit protection. Last time I looked the owners manual didn't have a guideline on how to drive the car.

Good luck OP! Hope you get your car fixed and back soon.

I never once let my E46 M3 fully warm up before pulling out of the garage... Granted I never pushed really it hard while it was cold, but I darn sure drove while it was still warming up. Occasionally I had to punch it as to not impede traffic while exiting my neighborhood while it was still ice cold... It certainly did not cause bearing damage doing so, as I put over 200k miles on that car over 7 years and it still had over 175 psi of compression across all six cylinders when I sold it... Pretty remarkable! And the only reason I bought the next generation M3... Sadly I would take back my e46 M3 in a heartbeat after this experience... Hopefully it will work out positively...

[IIAp3x]

Originally Posted by BzsBimmer

Yup which is why I'm asking. I actually have Maxcare however I have never read of anyone using Maxcare with RB issue.

We'll see how they handle it... Currently Sandy Sansing BMW is dropping the sub frame and the oil pan because the warranty company wants to know exactly which rod bearing disintegrated and then they will send an inspector to look at it while its up on the lift... Then they will determine whether or not they will approve or decline the coverage...

Keep you posted...

[BzsBimmer]

Originally Posted by s85e90

Yes they can and it's been documented before. Records are important for coverage.

Yeah that's what I figured. Thanks for the confirmation.

[nthretourNAFTW]

Originally Posted by IIAp3x

What's not to get about it? My car was special ordered from the factory also...

First... A 50k mile M3 should be a rock-solid car with minimal concerns... Every M3 owner I know loves their car and does not abuse it... In fact, most of them take better care of their car than most people...

Second... You are saying that BMW M3 engines are so delicate that cold-start test drives are shaving significant years off of the life of the car... These aren't hand-built Ferraris, they are production cars... Sure they are high-strung V8's, but they are not race cars.. They are built for the street, for the every-day commuter who desires a higher quality ride, for the average joe who wants a better than average performing sports car... Last time I checked, my car came with a bluetoothed-nav-high-end-audio system and air conditioning... There is a reason that modifying an M3 to race on the track voids the warranty, and that's because it was not built to be a race car... If I wanted a race car, I would have bought an Ultima GTR, not an M3...

Third... If the M3 is so delicate that it can't be cold-started and test driven without causing substantial damage, then why even bother mass-producing... Better yet, let's just throw the BMW reputation out the window and build cars that only last less than 100k miles like Range Rover...

In this day in age, a sports car should hold up 200k miles easily if taken care of... In fact, that is why I have always driven "M" cars- because they are reliable and fast... If the "bearing issue" really boils down to "cold start- test drives," we are all wasting our money...

Today's consumers not only expect a higher quality production car, but they also expect it to last a long time- even through the 2-dozen cold start test drives that a car my incur in its adolescent period of life...

Do you really think that BMW's 4.0 V8 is that much more sophisticated than the Z06 Corvette 5.7, The Porsche 911 3.6, C63 6.3, etc... No its not... Yet these cars endure the same cold-start test drives as any BMW M3 without bearing failures and reduction in reliability and longevity of life...

I am certain that every M3 owner would expect at least 150K miles of pleasurable life out of their car if maintained well- regardless of how many times the car was test driven cold...

BMW makes production cars, and they have a reputation of making great production cars that last when maintained!

I bought an E92 M3 because I have owned an E36 and E46 M3 and loved them!!! I maintained them meticulously and they rewarded me with years and years of pleasurable driving experiences for a very long time and hundreds of thousands of miles...

As an affirmed and avid BMW lover, I expect and demand the same experience with the E92 M3...

..And you can write two more pages if you like, it won't change the fact that you bought a used car with no visibility on how it was driven for 50k miles including most importantly break-in, just the previous owner's sale pitch with vested interest. Sorry but this matters, people pay factory price so as not to have to carry that risk along their ownership. There is nothing wrong in buying used as long as you are aware of the added risk versus lower price trade-off. Like most, i've had my used cars some good and some bad, some worse. It's the nature of that game.
All along you are implying that every first 50k miles of a car is the same no matter how it was driven. Sorry, that's denial.

Take any healthy car you listed, no matter how bulletproof (american pushrod, turbo, high strung NA, anything) a misguided driver can make a radical life expectancy change to its engine in less than 100 miles, just from behind the wheel, no mechanical foul play. It might be a guy the previous owner lent the car for an hour or maybe he himself was one of those adepts at "flooring the car during break in to get better piston ring seal for low oil consumption over the car's life". Don't assume that a zealous maintenance record is all that matters. Maybe it's a sign of trying to compensate for a car that went through more than what ordinary M3 goes through. Bottom line, it's used, you don't know. Just search the forum archives, it's not the irresponsible ignorant type you'd expect, some were advanced track instructors.

[SenorFunkyPants]

Not forgetting that some owners run their cars with superchargers and then remove them for resale.

[Ralbar61]

2008 E92 M3, manual @72k and no issues at this point. I don't track it or drive on the ragged edge. At least not too often! Lol!

[FashionablyFast]

I'm wondering if there's a chance the bearings were swapped once already in this car's lifetime. Possibly swapped to the newer ones since only a thousand miles ago, the oil analysis showed no lead & iron (only present in older cars' bearings).

[elusive303]

Originally Posted by Upgrade+

I wonder how another third party warranty like Route 66 would handle this. I've been in the market for an M3 and getting an after market warranty. But with the possibility of a warranty company not covering a catastrophic failure like this has me thinking twice

The Route 66 warranty excludes M3s. I was sent a cancelation notice and refund shortly after my purchase(this was a couple years back). This is most likely due to the high cost of out warranty repairs. Sucks because it was the whole reason I even financed through penfed.

[buffstocover]

Originally Posted by s85e90

Yes they can and it's been documented before. Records are important for coverage.

They can and do deny coverage for lots of things, but ultimately the warranty contract signed by the policy purchaser gives the purchaser/insured his rights and responsibilities. I'm not getting after s85e90 in any way--I'm just making a general statement.

This is off topic, but it always surprises me how much speculation and skepticism there is on this forum concerning warranty coverage. It's just a contract. Each company is different, and blanket statements about what is covered or why coverage is denied simply cannot be accurate across the board for all policies.

The best thing to do is to read, in detail, the policy before buying it. Most members on here are very knowledgeable about cars generally, and about these cars specifically, and if they just read their policies, then which warranty to buy or making claims wouldn't be so nervewracking because depending on your policy, you'd know what facts best support your case for coverage (or, alternatively, when to shut up).

For example, my car has a Dinan intake and exhaust (no tuned software). When I went to buy a warranty, I was completely up front about that fact. The main companies would not issue specifically because of these two (the only two) modifications. Even BMW wouldn't do it. Finally, I found a company who claimed they would issue with the two mods. I even got a call from the regional rep. confirming. Still, I read the policy for myself to make sure it would not deny coverage for pre-existing non OEM parts. Oral agreements not part of the written warranty contract are not worth the paper they're written on.... It also says something about changing fluids, and does not require me to use the dealer.

Anyway, my point is that perhaps some of us could avoid a little undue stress by reading our warranty documents. If you get jerked around and feel a claim should be covered, find a lawyer to help send a demand letter.

Just my $.02.

[Rupes]

..And you can write two more pages if you like, it won't change the fact that you bought a used car with no visibility on how it was driven for 50k miles including most importantly break-in, just the previous owner's sale pitch with vested interest. Sorry but this matters, people pay factory price so as not to have to carry that risk along their ownership. There is nothing wrong in buying used as long as you are aware of the added risk versus lower price trade-off. Like most, i've had my used cars some good and some bad, some worse. It's the nature of that game.
All along you are implying that every first 50k miles of a car is the same no matter how it was driven. Sorry, that's denial.

Take any healthy car you listed, no matter how bulletproof (american pushrod, turbo, high strung NA, anything) a misguided driver can make a radical life expectancy change to its engine in less than 100 miles, just from behind the wheel, no mechanical foul play. It might be a guy the previous owner lent the car for an hour or maybe he himself was one of those adepts at "flooring the car during break in to get better piston ring seal for low oil consumption over the car's life". Don't assume that a zealous maintenance record is all that matters. Maybe it's a sign of trying to compensate for a car that went through more than what ordinary M3 goes through. Bottom line, it's used, you don't know. Just search the forum archives, it's not the irresponsible ignorant type you'd expect, some were advanced track instructors.

There's only one person in denial here.

I can assure you that being the original owner on a well maintained e92 M3 does not preclude you from this issue. Might help postpone the inevitable a bit, but if your clearances are too tight, you're screwed.

[MachinesWithSouls]

Originally Posted by nthretourNAFTW

..And you can write two more pages if you like, it won't change the fact that you bought a used car with no visibility on how it was driven for 50k miles including most importantly break-in, just the previous owner's sale pitch with vested interest. Sorry but this matters, people pay factory price so as not to have to carry that risk along their ownership. There is nothing wrong in buying used as long as you are aware of the added risk versus lower price trade-off. Like most, i've had my used cars some good and some bad, some worse. It's the nature of that game.
All along you are implying that every first 50k miles of a car is the same no matter how it was driven. Sorry, that's denial.

Take any healthy car you listed, no matter how bulletproof (american pushrod, turbo, high strung NA, anything) a misguided driver can make a radical life expectancy change to its engine in less than 100 miles, just from behind the wheel, no mechanical foul play. It might be a guy the previous owner lent the car for an hour or maybe he himself was one of those adepts at "flooring the car during break in to get better piston ring seal for low oil consumption over the car's life". Don't assume that a zealous maintenance record is all that matters. Maybe it's a sign of trying to compensate for a car that went through more than what ordinary M3 goes through. Bottom line, it's used, you don't know. Just search the forum archives, it's not the irresponsible ignorant type you'd expect, some were advanced track instructors.

I agree with you. And granted there are cars with motors just as advanced, but OP forgets this engine design is already 10 years old counting design and planning phases. A V-8 that revs as high as ours was just not heard of in anything less than 100,000 at that time.