BMW S65 MT in a 1933 Ford Roadster

[Patrón]

Originally Posted by In33anity

You are absolutely correct!!! I normally triple-check things like this and am really shaking my head. In doing my pre-buy of the engine research, someone who I apparently thought was better informed drilled me that whatever I do, aluminum motor mounts and no steel bolts or I'll melt the magnesium block. I've followed that advice like gospel. Thanks for correcting me. --I

awesome build, buddy.

[In33anity]

Originally Posted by Patrón

awesome build, buddy.

[In33anity]

Take a pair of Active Autowerke's test pipes, their 100 cell high flow cats, their F10 M5 cans, some 3/16th stainless steel plate and Deeds exhaust bushings to make hangers, bends, etc., all 2.5" diameter and someone to help who welds stainless beautifully, and a full Saturday, and here's where we got on the exhaust installation, today. Front all done, except for one bung, crossover mocked up but was short a v-band, need some tighter bends to get the back done and to get the back hangers finished. Of course, no sub-project would be complete without a tweak to the frame and today was no different. Hadn't noticed the round bar was pressed against the header flange on the passenger side, just two tight to get the down pipe on. Took a 3/4" slice out of the tube in the back and pulled it in to the chassis which gave just enough clearance. First is a pic of the moved tube, remainder is the exhaust and the front hangers.

[Hujan]

This thing continues to blow my mind. I am curious: Do you have a sense of what the approximate final weight will be and how it will be distributed?

[In33anity]

Originally Posted by Hujan

This thing continues to blow my mind. I am curious: Do you have a sense of what the approximate final weight will be and how it will be distributed?

Thanks Hujan, I'm expecting it should come in around 2250 lbs, 3:1 power to weight and pretty close to 50/50 -- I

[BzsBimmer]

Damn impressive build!
I read every single post since I didn't want to repost anything however, if you don't mind me asking, why use a BMW motor in this build?
Sure the S65 is a high revving motor but IMHO it has its fair share of weaknesses as well.

With the advancements in domestic engine design and output as well as suspension refinements in American branded models (thinking Corvette Stingray etc), what drove you to decide on the S65?

In the end, this build will undoubtedly go down in the books as EPIC and I'm actually glad to see someone venture outside of the norm. Hat tip to you sir!

[Hujan]

Originally Posted by In33anity

Thanks Hujan, I'm expecting it should come in around 2250 lbs, 3:1 power to weight and pretty close to 50/50 -- I

Amazing! I honestly can't imagine what this thing will be able to do. A supercharged S65 is crazy when pushing 3600 lbs. I can't imagine shedding more than a half ton of weight.

Can't wait to see this thing when it's all done. Keep up the good work!

[Mfanatik]

This project is insane! I cant wait to see the end result, its going to be a rocket.

Good work on the build!

[In33anity]

Thanks guys for the support!!!

Originally Posted by BzsBimmer

Damn impressive build!
I read every single post since I didn't want to repost anything however, if you don't mind me asking, why use a BMW motor in this build?
Sure the S65 is a high revving motor but IMHO it has its fair share of weaknesses as well.

With the advancements in domestic engine design and output as well as suspension refinements in American branded models (thinking Corvette Stingray etc), what drove you to decide on the S65?

In the end, this build will undoubtedly go down in the books as EPIC and I'm actually glad to see someone venture outside of the norm. Hat tip to you sir!

Thanks BzsBimmer for taking the time to read every post and your very nice comments. What drove me to go the S65 is purely emotion and the challenge of pulling it off. The internet is filled with lots of really cool domestic builds these days, the LS and Coyote motors are really good, and certainly would have been much easier as an enormous aftermarket for putting them in hot rods that can make it almost a bolt in. But just like some people like butts and some people like breasts, when it comes to boys and cars it all comes down to what turns you on. The idea of putting this in a hot rod just makes the hair on the back of my neck stand up:

[CIFUM3]

I can't believe I've waited this long to look at this thread!!!! Dear god this thing is gonna be a monster!!! You did an amazing job! I'm so jealous! Wish I had the skill to pull this off!!! Can't wait to hear this car start

[bradleyland]

Originally Posted by In33anity

Thanks BzsBimmer for taking the time to read every post and your very nice comments. What drove me to go the S65 is purely emotion and the challenge of pulling it off. The internet is filled with lots of really cool domestic builds these days, the LS and Coyote motors are really good, and certainly would have been much easier as an enormous aftermarket for putting them in hot rods that can make it almost a bolt in. But just like some people like butts and some people like breasts, when it comes to boys and cars it all comes down to what turns you on. The idea of putting this in a hot rod just makes the hair on the back of my neck stand up

Love this answer. Not a knock against BzsBimmer at all, but it's great to see people doing things for their passion, rather than simply optimizing for metrics all the time

[BzsBimmer]

Originally Posted by In33anity

Thanks guys for the support!!!



Thanks BzsBimmer for taking the time to read every post and your very nice comments. What drove me to go the S65 is purely emotion and the challenge of pulling it off. The internet is filled with lots of really cool domestic builds these days, the LS and Coyote motors are really good, and certainly would have been much easier as an enormous aftermarket for putting them in hot rods that can make it almost a bolt in. But just like some people like butts and some people like breasts, when it comes to boys and cars it all comes down to what turns you on. The idea of putting this in a hot rod just makes the hair on the back of my neck stand up:

Great response. Wasn't looking for an argument actually! I was actually really just curious since I'm sure many die hard muscle heads are crying blasphemy right now! In the end, you have the financial backing, skill and passion to do this right, which in the end is what matters. It would be a shame to see this project done half assed because of a budget issue or because the technical roadblocks couldn't be engineered out. Looking forward like others to see and hear this roar to life!

Originally Posted by bradleyland

Love this answer. Not a knock against BzsBimmer at all, but it's great to see people doing things for their passion, rather than simply optimizing for metrics all the time

No knock taken!

[In33anity]

Took an entire day for two of us (someone far more skilled than I am in fabricating SS exhaust) in the garage to get this vision out of my head and built and mounted, but slayed the crossover beast. Really tight fit with the S65 in the FFR chassis. Here's the completed set-up with a heavily modified set of Active Autowerke's test tubes and their 100 cell racing cats. Notice the cutaway we put in in the center tube to clear a casting ridge on the transmission. Deeds v-bands on either side of the center tube so that it all goes in and out easily. All 2.5" tubing and goes into Active's F10 M5's cans for the twin turbo V8. The crossover drops down to clear the transmission. Getting those compound bicycle joints figured out and cut on the mill took hours! Also got in the chassis support sandwich plates I made up on each side where had to cut the frame bars out so the pipes would run straight through. Still left to accomplish is to build a package unit on each side with the dropdown to just below the frame and Active's 72mm tips exiting just before the rear tires. Slowly coming, but coming. In the last pic you can also see the gearbox pump and the just got back modified inlet/outlet tubes. BMW uses a weird fitting I could not find for the inlet and outlets. I finally decided to have the local fab shop bead blast stubs cut off off the aluminum stock pipes and mate to AN fittings. You can really see the difference in the cylinder offset on the passenger side on the front by how short the front section ahead of the CAT in the first pic is.

[Patrón]

You could have saved time and just run headers. . Jk love your build.

[In33anity]

Originally Posted by Patrón

You could have saved time and just run headers. . Jk love your build.

LoL!!! Thanks, Patron, really appreciate it!

So last weekend started feeling ill over dinner Saturday night after working on the exhaust. By Sunday couldn’t breathe with a fairly intense pneumonia. A week later, feeling a bit better, but still laboring to breathe, and super anxious to finish fabrication so can get going with the wiring install to start, what’s a corporate lawyer at crunch time to do but lean on an accountant. Helps this particular accountant welds stainless beautifully and was already helping on the exhaust!!! So I did call the accountant, told him he had to do the heavy lifting for today, and here’s where we got. Passenger side package outlet unit finished, driver’s side hangers done and all the pieces cut up for that side’s package unit. Built as a package so it’s solid as a rock. I think I can run at the track with it with the clearance at 2.5 or 3”. But can also be removed and turndowns put in if I want to really tighten up the suspension and run lower.

By the way, if looking for a hot rodders puzzle when your laid up, here goes. Bought the light and hazard switches out of a wrecked turbo carrera for the '33. 100’s of permutations and combinations of pins. You’d be totally amazed at how many hours you can spend in bed with an OEM meter and a double-digit pin, 7 position switch! Deciphered the switch. The 9 pin hazard switch/indicator still in deciphering mode.

Here’s the package unit for the passenger side:





Glamour shots:









After a month delay, the backordered 20 degree 20AN fittings finally came for my (finished) 6” passenger side radiator hose. Got it in today.



Finally, picked up my modified ZR1 rear brakes. Bored, dowels put in, welded and filled to bring the mounting posts in as a bolt in for the M3 IRS. 5 trips back and forth over several months for fitting and marking. They'll be refinished in the pretty-up phase. Before and after shots:









Cheers -- I

[Beedub]

insane.....

i can't imagine the feeling of firing this up for the first time and using WOT.... one of life's true wonders.

[Patrón]

Originally Posted by Beedub

insane.....

i can't imagine the feeling of firing this up for the first time and using WOT.... one of life's true wonders.

Agree, can't think of any other BMW build that comes close to this in ingenuity or quality.

Keep up the great work OP.

[Dog Face Pony Soldier]

Best thread of 2014. Thanks.

[ArthurL]

Amazing build so far, OP! I'm looking forward to seeing you complete the car. When do you expect to finish it?

[In33anity]

Thanks guys. Really appreciate the comments and truly motivational! OP, for sure in 2015, would like to have it on the road, even without finished paint, for Summer.

[In33anity]

Big push. Got 26 hours in the garage yesterday and today. Got most of the fuel system plumbed yesterday, the transmission cooler mounted, the engine heater pipes I had modified with 12AN fittings installed with a temporary hose until I finish the heater, a host of bolts torqued down, etc. I had the fuel rail modified with 10AN stainless fittings and installed an outlet at the end of the rail so can run the regulator after the rail to ensure constant pressure through the rail. Today had the accountant helping again and we finished the exhaust and tacked up the intercooler inlet/supercharger out pipe which he took home to TIG. Plan for tmrw is to finish the plumbing and transfer the engine dash electronics from the loom to the car. I'm going to leave the body off for the time being while I wire it up. I'm super stoked with how the intercooler pipe turned out.

Driver side exhaust outlet package, which completes the exhaust:






Intercooler inlet tube:













20 Micron pre-pump filter and pump, there's a 120 micron filter at the inlet to the fuel rail. 10 AN fuel line, 8 AN return from the regulator (the regulator can be seen in upper right hand corner of the firewall).





.

[In33anity]

So yesterday I was totally obsessed. I had the entire day all by myself with nothing to interfere whatsoever! Was up at 3 and started updating my ToDo list and final research/studying for the day, was back from the coffee shop and in the garage by a little before 5 am, and at it straight until past 9 pm. Was one of the first times on this project was more of a mechanic type day then a fabrication day and I forgot how much I really enjoy that. Went through the motor from bottom to top, torquing as I went, installing the few remaining gaskets on the list and attacking the wiring harness. KMS Racing Engines built the mil-spec harness and reflashed the throttle actuators and as described in an earlier post, the Volkswagon secondary idle throttle. Got most of it on the motor yesterday, as well as the modified fuel rail and the new Bosch "big green" injectors supplied by Active. Have a small list of crush washers and fittings to pick up, as well as some tweaks -- like the modified heater hose I was so glad to have done and installed now has the relatively inflexible -12 hose ever so interfering with the back of the harness plug for the driver side cam intake sensor which makes it impossible to get on! Further modification necessary as well as need to make a bracket for the air pump. Inextricably, BMW OEM has the air pump attached to the plastic cover of the OEM wiring harness. I've left the OEM secondary air hoses on for now, but will change them out to match during post powdercoat reassembly.

Starting to look less like a paper weight and more like a motor again. Here you can see the harness and top center the modified -10 inlet on the fuel rail in the OEM position, and in the lower left, the new -10 return back to the fuel regulator.



The regulator is now in and mounted on the upper right of a purpose built, but quickly running out of room, firewall. Although the digital dash will fully measure fuel pressure at the regulator (need to pick up an adaptor for the sensor), I added an analogue at the regulator for convenience and because I really like the look of an engine bay gauge in an open wheeled hot rod! From the regulator back to the return on the cell is -8 hose. BTW, I need to settle on a sending unit for the fuel cell level. Most I see and all FuelSafe who built the cell does are 90 ohm. For the digital dash to read it, calls for a 0-5 volt signal, interested if anyone has used one they like.



I need to squeeze in and drill two holes for the engine harness bulkhead connectors.



Here's a shot of the reflashed throttle actuators and the VW idle actuator on the left, all reinstalled and wired up (save for a hose clamp I need to pick up for the idle actuator).



Lastly, here's a shot of Saturday's fabbed up SC out/IC in pipe. Challenges in design were to keep it below the theoretical hood line so as to not interfere with vision, keep it out of harms way of suspension and steering moves at their tightest, provide a little room on the other side to allow for engine flex, allow for front halfies bumper and headlight installation, and assuming all that was adhered to, to then tweak it so it met my vision and design aesthetic for gracefulness and coolness factor as it is one of the most noticeable components of the project as really hits you in the face. To put it simply, I want BADASS, something akin to the Eddie's Chop Shop twin turbo 1934 Ford monster on the cover of Hot Rod last year with the turbos up front and the radiator in the trunk (1934 Ford Twin-Turbo Big-Block Coupe - Hot Rod Magazine). I had a rough idea when I did mock up for the radiator and IC early in the year, but playing with 2.5" and 3" both tight and wide radius bends (made sure to have all four mandrel bent on hand) really makes a difference in achieving the look.

The blower clocks and tried moving it to multiple positions. None make it easy, but I ended up liking this design best. In the end, comes out of the 2.5" mouth of the SC, with a tight radius 180 degree turn laid on its side to about 2 o'clock to keep it below the hood, then swings back through a wide radius about 75 degrees to get it in the correct lateral plane, at which point it pops through a transition to 3" tubing so as the air expands it starts to cool down for a run into the IC. Put the final blow off valve just past the transition. Finally, played with wide radius curves to get it down to the IC inlet where it enters through a 90 degree wide radius bend, but ultimately settled on a 45 degree knee bend as looking most right to my eye when viewed from the front!



Finished design. On the floor, you can see start of bumper fab. Idea is to put a 2" stub behind the tube on the frame horn, and the have removable package unit mount into it, where the bracket comes around and crosses the IC pipe to come up and forward and then meets the halfy at the just NY minimum legal level of 16". Had solid bar tapped and turned down to take two lateral M12 bolts to hold it all level, but allow for easy removal of the package when racing or showing! Will try to get that all finished soon as well