apex arc-7 nto1 275/35/18 need help!!!!!

[Sebringjetta]

Ok picked up a set of apex arc 7 18x10 et25 square and a set of 275/35/18 ... I also picked up a kw sleave over kit and the front tires are rubbing the spring.... what am I doing wrong ...need a spacer if so what size... can I not run this setup with the kw sleave over??? Need help fellas thank you in advance

[CalSE]

I have EC7×10.5 with 285/30/18 and 5 mm spacer at front to clear spring. I had to remove helper springs and changed to shorter springs on my KW Clubsports.

[M3 Esq]

Call Apex directly. They are extremely knowledgable about fitment and I am sure they can tell you what you'll need to make it fit.

[slicer]

Start with a 5mm spacer.

[Sleeper519]

^ yes, use a spacer. Depends on the amount of neg camber you have. I have the same tire and wheel setup with stock struts and springs. I run -2.6* up front and use a 12mm spacer without problem. Those 275 NT-01s will rub the fender liner with full turns but no rubbing for me on fender or suspension.
I don't think 5mm will be enough though.

[Sebringjetta]

Originally Posted by slicer

Start with a 5mm spacer.

Originally Posted by Sleeper519

^ yes, use a spacer. Depends on the amount of neg camber you have. I have the same tire and wheel setup with stock struts and springs. I run -2.6* up front and use a 12mm spacer without problem. Those 275 NT-01s will rub the fender liner with full turns but no rubbing for me on fender or suspension.
I don't think 5mm will be enough though.

i have a set of 12mm spacers that i put on the car and work great but my fear under load how bad will they rub the fenders...one thing i dont like is the fenders on these e92 m3 are what plastic????? unlike the e46 m3 that are metal...so how much stress can these fenders take???? i went and got an alignment and after pulling the pins i got 1.5 up front....

[Sebringjetta]

also my fear is that the 5m wont be enough

[dapopa9]

yeah just use a spacer

[E92inSG]

Weird. Apex say that 18x10 square on 275/35/18 or 285/30/18 should work without spacers.

Now I'm worried. I got a set of 18x10 with 285/30/18 on the way

Fingers crossed!

[slicer]

Originally Posted by Sebringjetta

also my fear is that the 5m wont be enough

Originally Posted by E92inSG

Weird. Apex say that 18x10 square on 275/35/18 or 285/30/18 should work without spacers.

Now I'm worried. I got a set of 18x10 with 285/30/18 on the way

Fingers crossed!

KW Coilovers have a helper spring that reduces inner clearance as compared to stock, lowering springs, and other coilovers. As a result, you need a minimum of et20 to fit a 275 on a 10" wheel in the front. I know it has been done but it will be very close to the spring. It is so close that it is somewhat dependent on the tire brand that you are using (some are wider than others). I have custom HRE's, 10" et18 with 275 Michelin PSS, KW coilovers, and they are mm's away from hitting the spring.

Apex is a knowledgable company but they don't go out of their way to tell people that the 10" et25 wheel and 275's are not compatible KW coilovers. 5mm spacers are required and even those may not be enought... it's tight.

[r53s65e90]

Originally Posted by E92inSG

Weird. Apex say that 18x10 square on 275/35/18 or 285/30/18 should work without spacers.

Now I'm worried. I got a set of 18x10 with 285/30/18 on the way

Fingers crossed!

I have exactly the same suspension setup as you set to the recommended heights. The gap between the shock and and the rim/tire currently is big enough so I can wiggle my fingers in it. (255/35x19 on 9x10+31 ZCP wheel). If you put a 275/35x18 on a 18x10+25 apex wheel you need an extra 4mm on the suspension side, which is easily there. See attached (calculated at http://www.rimsntires.com/specs.jsp). Rears should be fine.

[Expert@ApexWheels]

At least a 5mm spacer is recommended so that your wheels and tires can clear the spring perch of the KW sleeveover kit, which sits lower than the OEM spring perch, and the use of the NT01s in 275/35/18 is much wider than the average street tire. This is an issue for 18x10" ET25 with 275/35/18 tires, especially with R-compounds, for all KW coilovers on the e9x M3 chassis, including the V3s, Clubsports, and Sleeveover kit, and is a compromise that is made when using a wider wheel and tire up front. A 12mm would most likely push it out too far, and without negative camber, it can cause interference with the front fenders especially on a track like Laguna Seca, when your suspension can fully compress and you'd need the clearance for the wheels and tires to tuck inside the fenders.

Originally Posted by slicer

Apex is a knowledgable company but they don't go out of their way to tell people that the 10" et25 wheel and 275's are not compatible KW coilovers. 5mm spacers are required and even those may not be enought... it's tight.

We're very sorry that you feel that way. We definitely do try to mention this issue if we are given the details of a customer's car, which sometimes is not always provided for various reasons. If a customer mentions that they have KW suspension, it is one of the first things we will bring up. KW coilovers not only have issues on the e9x chassis, but also on previous model BMWs as well.

[Vybz]

Originally Posted by slicer

Apex is a knowledgable company but they don't go out of their way to tell people that the 10" et25 wheel and 275's are not compatible KW coilovers. 5mm spacers are required and even those may not be enought... it's tight.

Hate to say it bro, but I don't think that's really fair to the company either. It's not the seller's responsibility to think of every single obstacle that you might run into when making a purchase. Furthermore if you're dropping cash, wouldn't you want to do your research / homework beforehand and ensure that you're money is going towards something that'll actually fit your needs. There's no doubt that if the buyer had asked the question, APEX would have answered it. If you don't even know what you're looking for, or should be looking for when making a purchase, you can't just blame the seller for your own ignorance. My 2 cents.

[w00tw00t]

not the company's fault - APEX is a great setup... use a 5mm spacer.. that's what I use - I have the same setup

[bigjae1976]

Originally Posted by slicer

Apex is a knowledgable company but they don't go out of their way to tell people that the 10" et25 wheel and 275's are not compatible KW coilovers. 5mm spacers are required and even those may not be enought... it's tight.

I may not know much...but this is a pretty well known issue with KWs on the E46 and E9X chassis. Their struts with helper springs create clearance issues...one of the VERY few that do create issues with common M and non-M offsets. Most people just ditch the helper spring.

[E92inSG]

Originally Posted by r53s65e90

I have exactly the same suspension setup as you set to the recommended heights. The gap between the shock and and the rim/tire currently is big enough so I can wiggle my fingers in it. (255/35x19 on 9x10+31 ZCP wheel). If you put a 275/35x18 on a 18x10+25 apex wheel you need an extra 4mm on the suspension side, which is easily there. See attached (calculated at http://www.rimsntires.com/specs.jsp). Rears should be fine.

Thanks for the detailed analysis. So you are confident I will not need spacers for my 285/30/18 VENTUS TDs? Currently running -3.5 camber on ohlins R&T coilovers. I REALLY wouldn't want to have to use spacers.

In any case the wheels and tires are already on its way to me

[slicer]

Originally Posted by David@ApexRaceParts

We're very sorry that you feel that way. We definitely do try to mention this issue if we are given the details of a customer's car, which sometimes is not always provided for various reasons. If a customer mentions that they have KW suspension, it is one of the first things we will bring up. KW coilovers not only have issues on the e9x chassis, but also on previous model BMWs as well.

Let me be more clear. As evidenced by your post (and others that I have seen you make), you will certainly tell people about the clearance issue with KW coilovers, and kudos for being active on the forum! I didn't mean to insinuate that Apex is trying to hide anything. I have seen you post in these types of threads in the past. However, I have also seen these same wheels posted as a "no spacer fitment" and I don't often see the KW suspension disclaimer made unless someone has a problem. Admittedly the "no spacer fitment" comments may be made primarily by venders. My point is that considering that KW coilovers are by far the most common used on the E90 M3, I think it would be best to go out of your way to make the disclaimer...proactively without waiting to hear what suspension a prospective buyer has. Hence my comment.

Originally Posted by Vybz

Hate to say it bro, but I don't think that's really fair to the company either. It's not the seller's responsibility to think of every single obstacle that you might run into when making a purchase. Furthermore if you're dropping cash, wouldn't you want to do your research / homework beforehand and ensure that you're money is going towards something that'll actually fit your needs. There's no doubt that if the buyer had asked the question, APEX would have answered it. If you don't even know what you're looking for, or should be looking for when making a purchase, you can't just blame the seller for your own ignorance. My 2 cents.

I certainly wouldn't blame Apex if I had a fitment issue but I'm not the average wheel buyer. I think lots of people buy wheels without understanding offsets and clearance tolerances with their car. I often get PM's from people asking me what will fit their car... 10" et25 Apex wheels as well as the 10"et25 ZCP rears are a common front fitment I'm asked about. Most people don't realize they don't fit with KW's.

[slicer]

Originally Posted by bigjae1976

I may not know much...but this is a pretty well known issue with KWs on the E46 and E9X chassis. Their struts with helper springs create clearance issues...one of the VERY few that do create issues with common M and non-M offsets. Most people just ditch the helper spring.

This has not been my experience. I'm often posting in these sorts of threads and getting PM's regarding the KW fitment issue. Most people don't have a clue.

[Sebringjetta]

ok so 1st off i would like to think i do my research before making a purchase but sometimes offsets, wheels size, and tire size can sometimes go over my head. there some things that you can research on but in some cases such as a nt01 you would think a 275 is exactly what the company states....275 when in fact the nitto nt01 275 is almost 1 size larger then the standard 275 tire....also the wheel size and offset in question w/ a 275/35 nt01 is ran by so many members but the one thing i did not know about is the kw springs being larger then most causing clearance issues...would have been nice to have this advertised by the vendors but they cant cover everything....i spoke w/ ryan from apex and he was very helpful through the process but in the end it was going to be trial and error.

so here was my result from sat at laguna. via ryan from apex parts i ordered a 5mm spacer and picked it up the day before as i was lucky they had it in stock. i currently was running a .5 inch spacer that i believe is 12.5 mm but someone can correct me if im wrong. the 12mm spacer fixed the clearance issue i was having w/ the tire rubbing on the kw spring but i now was having clearance w/ the outer fender. if your not a "stance guy" meaning your car is not slammed the 12mm spacer is fine for street driving and had no issues there but w/ the extreme turns at laguna and knowing the susp. would compress hard and having plastic fenders it was a scary thought as what was going to be left at the end of the day. so the first off in the morning i tried fitting the 5mm spacer and it was not still clearing the spring or if it was i couldnt fit a credit card in between the tire and spring....most guys that track know the tire bulges under extreme load so you must take that into account as well so the 5mm would never work anyhow. so i was left w/ the 12mm spacers....i went ahead crossed my fingers and gave it a try. after the 1st session i noticed some rubbing but nothing extreme and my fenders were still in place but i went real easy and knew i was only going 50% so at 90-100% they would rub much more.

i decided to next loosen all the fender bolts that ran down the top of the fenders and while another person keeping the tension by pulling out on the fenders i was able to gain some more clearance. by the 3rd session i had some rub when i was going about 90% but after examining the tires there was no rubber cut or damage to the side wall...at most they were only polished a little. now of course im not sure how the sidewall heats up when the tire barely touches the fender and of course you dont want them to rub at all so before next month i plan on picking up some camber plates and im 100% sure that with a little camber i will not rub what so ever. but the nt01 needs camber to run at its full potential all in all it worked out. thank you everyone for all the help

[pkimM3r]

What about if you raised the car a bit or used a 10mm spacer instead?

[Porschefile]

Originally Posted by Sebringjetta

i tried fitting the 5mm spacer and it was not still clearing the spring or if it was i couldnt fit a credit card in between the tire and spring....most guys that track know the tire bulges under extreme load so you must take that into account as well so the 5mm would never work anyhow.

Apex 18x10's with KW CS on my car only needs 5mm fronts (no spacer rear) to clear. And that is with conti slicks. There is VERY little clearance, but that's all you need.

My guess is that your camber is insufficient (I am at -2.5 or so in front).

I do not feel like Apex has some obligation to inform every buyer of fitment with each suspension option the buyer could have. I called Apex to verify fitment and was told to either run a 5mm spacer or to remove the helper springs (though they said they couldn't officially recommend removing the helper since it could cause seating problems when the tire comes off the ground).

[Sebringjetta]

Originally Posted by pkim1079

What about if you raised the car a bit or used a 10mm spacer instead?

Originally Posted by Porschefile

Apex 18x10's with KW CS on my car only needs 5mm fronts (no spacer rear) to clear. And that is with conti slicks. There is VERY little clearance, but that's all you need.

My guess is that your camber is insufficient (I am at -2.5 or so in front).

I do not feel like Apex has some obligation to inform every buyer of fitment with each suspension option the buyer could have. I called Apex to verify fitment and was told to either run a 5mm spacer or to remove the helper springs (though they said they couldn't officially recommend removing the helper since it could cause seating problems when the tire comes off the ground).

post #19....problem for the most part solved thanks fellas