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12-10-2013, 09:57 PM | #45 |
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12-10-2013, 10:02 PM | #46 | |
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F=PA is all you need to understand to settle this argument. How do you not understand that A in the equation is BORE? Bore is indeed a parameter used to determine engine torque. |
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12-10-2013, 10:06 PM | #47 | |
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If you increase stroke only, you increase torque. In the same manner, if you increase bore only, you also increase torque. Both of these are the resultant of an increased displacement. So yes, a bigger engine is able to produce more torque, no rocket science here. However, for a given displacement, altering the bore and stroke relationship has no geometrical effect on the torque produced. Last edited by CanAutM3; 12-10-2013 at 10:25 PM.. |
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12-10-2013, 10:21 PM | #49 |
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12-10-2013, 10:23 PM | #51 |
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12-10-2013, 10:24 PM | #52 |
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I actually think most would enjoy reading the discussion since there is relatively little technical content on this Site, but some enjoy reading the nonsense posts i suppose.
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12-10-2013, 11:42 PM | #54 | |
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The redline is higher is because it has more exotic materials used in the valvetrain and in the bottom end - stuff like forged titanium connecting rods to reduce the mass of the reciprocating assembly - and because it has an oversquare bore x stroke (102 x 77.5 mm). By comparison, the S65 also has an oversquare bore x stroke of 92 x 75.2 mm but the GT3 has significantly more potential valve area due to the larger bore, to enable better breathing at higher rpm. The S65 also uses steel con rods and "only" has 12:1 compression ratio. |
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12-11-2013, 12:35 AM | #55 |
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12-11-2013, 12:44 AM | #56 | |
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I saw this on Jalopnik. 5,608,310 lb-ft of torque and up to 108,920 BHP. You need displacement to get that kind of torque. |
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12-11-2013, 06:26 AM | #57 | |
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Good example What the hell is that thing? Last edited by CanAutM3; 12-11-2013 at 06:49 AM.. |
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12-11-2013, 06:45 AM | #58 | |
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The GT3 engine flows better (volumetric efficiency), better utilises the intake charge (direct injection) and probably has less friction losses. The GT3 engine example proves my point about the bore and stroke relationship. It has a much bigger bore vs stroke relationship (102/77.5) compared to the S65 (92/75.2). This bigger bore allows for a bigger head surface area and for bigger valves, which in turn improves volumetric efficiency. So oversquare engine don't produce less torque, myth busted . Last edited by CanAutM3; 12-11-2013 at 06:54 AM.. |
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12-11-2013, 07:51 AM | #59 |
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12-11-2013, 07:59 AM | #60 | |
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What a monster |
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12-11-2013, 08:18 AM | #61 | |
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S54 stock redline: 8000 rpm S65 stock redline: 8400 rpm That's 5% higher, not >10% higher Comparing modded to stock makes no sense. And, for that matter, my S54 had a 8700 rpm redline for a bit (albeit by mistake, but no damage was done to the engine). Stock vs stock (aka, with stock redlines), the S54 has high piston speed and a longer stroke, too
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12-11-2013, 08:48 AM | #62 | |
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12-11-2013, 08:52 AM | #63 |
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12-11-2013, 09:08 AM | #64 | |
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I am curious to see what the F80 M3 will weigh on car scales, because I on the record am going to state that the "average" F80 M3 being driven on the road will not weigh below 3400lbs on scales. MY argument here is simply that IF you care about weight in your car, the e9x is still a viable platform if you forego options and go with light exhaust/wheels… It is annoying that people with electric seats, moon roofs, and 19" wheels are using weight as the "selling point" of the new M3/M4. Yes, the new car will be faster, but enthusiasts and car lovers who have SPECIFIC tastes and goals (feel/experience vs. a fact sheet) may more often than not prefer a stripped car w/ s65 V8 and less electronic nannies and gimmicks to the new "lighter" but MORE optioned F30/F80. I think BOTH cars have a case and logical reason to be owned by all types of people, but to say that the "new M3/M4" are lighter and to use that as a selling point is ///MARKETING. This statement will be pretty much null/irrelevant if a handful of F80s start weighing in at 3,3xx lbs on scales. BUT, Im calling BS on that…. They will all be 3,4xx on scales, thus, resulting in a weight loss of 100lbs. Woopty dooooo That said, a stripped F80 M3 stock w/ CF roof + CFRP driveshaft and light weight redux (3,2xx lbs on scales) will probably be sickeningly fast and walk a loaded e90 M3 Haters gonna hate. this example is of a car with the following specs… -19" wheels -M-DCT -EDC -Nav (Tech. Package) 1/4 tank of fuel. Last edited by 325rider; 12-11-2013 at 09:42 AM.. |
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12-11-2013, 09:16 AM | #65 | |
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But seriously, this is something I've always been told and wondered about it. So I'm definitely reading and learning here. I'm interested. |
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12-11-2013, 09:32 AM | #66 |
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I've got 4 pages of Otto Cycle thermodynamic equations, graphs and diagrams I'll try to load tonight. It's in pdf format so it'll take some trickery to load. It's solid engineering on engine Net Work (torque if you will) and efficiency. Stay tuned!
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