S65 Engine Seize at 72k miles, BMW agrees buyback.

[FogCityM3]

It's one thing for an engine to blow (can be covered under existing or extended warranty), quite another for an engine to seize and potentially cause a severe accident. BMW is exposing itself to potential liability given the public documentation of the engine issues that they have chosen to ignore thus far. There should be some serious consideration in contacting the NHTSA to further document these problems.

[regular guy]

Originally Posted by FogCityM3

It's one thing for an engine to blow (can be covered under existing or extended warranty), quite another for an engine to seize and potentially cause a severe accident.

[tuxblackedo]

One thing to remember is that when you look at other people's rod bearings, don't just think "oh those rod bearings look bad, but they still got a little bit of meat left to them", what you gotta realize is that these bearings get really hot and deform certain parts of your engine, when that happens they fall out of place and you got a huge chunk of metal dislodged in your engine. It's kind of like throwing a wrench into a gear at that point.

Please watch this video if you haven't already:

One thing I realized just now, one should replace both main bearings and rod bearings

[lsmkr01]

Originally Posted by regular guy

x 100. Its going to take someone loosing their life for BMW to issue a recall to replace the crack shafts with correctly sized journals and modify the oil recommendation.

[Charlie@McKennaBMWService]

That is very unfortunate to read... The fact that NA was unwilling to aid you in a replacement motor is absurd, I am however glad to read that you were ultimately able to resolve everything, sucks that you're leaving the M3 family though... Good luck with your GTR, great car but it's definitely not an M3.

[whats77inaname]

Originally Posted by regular guy

Same exact thing happened to a local buddy's S65/M3 just last week. Driving fast, wheels skid out from underneath as his motor seized. Car gets towed home, he looks underneath and finds pieces of two connecting rods and pistons inside the oil pan. If I get his permissions, I will post photos. Two rods failed, and it's very clear from the pieces that the big end of the connecting rods were superheated and welded themselves to the crankshaft -- which is what caused the instant seizure and skid out of control.

Seems like your buddy needs to contact the OP's lawyer....

[tuxblackedo]

Originally Posted by Charlie@McKennaBMWService

sucks that you're leaving the M3 family though... Good luck with your GTR, great car but it's definitely not an M3.

It's the only car that I hated pulling up to at a stop light with my M3.

Originally Posted by whats77inaname

Seems like your buddy needs to contact the OP's lawyer....

[Charlie@McKennaBMWService]

Originally Posted by tuxblackedo

It's the only car that I hated pulling up to at a stop light with my M3.

That should technically be the issue for any car that's AWD with forced induction... Mind you if you had a blower it would be a different story... Trust me.

[lsal]

Congrats!

[neilm3]

I may have to call your lawyer friend! Congrats on getting things resolved!

[JChan]

To the OP, customer service varies dealer to dealer, not saying BMW has the best customer service, but my SA has always pulled strings for me to get things fixed saving thousands. So don't give up on the ///M life yet

[Mr. Liu]

^Which dealer bunghole?

[Nodipstickm3]

Originally Posted by aus

Congrats OP.

Thanks for the tip on the attorney.

You may want top make a separate thread in the Cali section labeled, Blown engine attorney or something like that so it's easier to find. I hope I never need him, but it's good to know there's someone out there that can help against BMW.

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I'm in the same situation now. My engine was blown last June at 68k miles. Dealer kept denying my check engine light coming up. When I hit just about 68k miles I was on the freeway on my way to a shop to check the noise. Once I came you stop my engine died and wouldn't turn back.
All service was done by bmw dealer
Towed it to my friends shop and found out that the crank seized!

I emailed bogdan today. Hopefully he can do something with my situation. Thanks again to the OP for this. Congrats on getting your situation resolved.

[BPMSport]

Originally Posted by Sti2e92sedan

I'm in the same situation now. My engine was blown last June at 68k miles. Dealer kept denying my check engine light coming up. When I hit just about 68k miles I was on the freeway on my way to a shop to check the noise. Once I came you stop my engine died and wouldn't turn back.
All service was done by bmw dealer
Towed it to my friends shop and found out that the crank seized!

I emailed bogdan today. Hopefully he can do something with my situation. Thanks again to the OP for this. Congrats on getting your situation resolved.

2008? Sorry that happened. I'm going to make a strong suggestion here that all 2008 owners purchase extended warranty coverage.

IMO, the problem cars are the 2008's that are driven hard or tracked regularly. I think as these cars become 7-8 years old that we're going to see a lot more of this surface. I think the newer ones are fine. This is just conjecture, but having been in contact with hundreds of M3's, this is a logical educated conclusion for me. From what I've seen, the failures in 08 tend to be from use/time, and failures in 2010 and up cars tend to be lower mileage, and more "fluke" type scenarios.

[Nodipstickm3]

Originally Posted by Mike Benvo

2008? Sorry that happened. I'm going to make a strong suggestion here that all 2008 owners purchase extended warranty coverage.

IMO, the problem cars are the 2008's that are driven hard or tracked regularly. I think as these cars become 7-8 years old that we're going to see a lot more of this surface. I think the newer ones are fine. This is just conjecture, but having been in contact with hundreds of M3's, this is a logical educated conclusion for me. From what I've seen, the failures in 08 tend to be from use/time, and failures in 2010 and up cars tend to be lower mileage, and more "fluke" type scenarios.

So this means the the 2010 and up should see similar problems as miles pile up as they did on 08. Been following the threads about resizing the crank. Seems like this is the only true and safe long lasting sit ok.

[BPMSport]

Originally Posted by Sti2e92sedan

So this means the the 2010 and up should see similar problems as miles pile up as they did on 08. Been following the threads about resizing the crank. Seems like this is the only true and safe long lasting sit ok.

You could be right - but this is not my take. The older bearings are softer material and tend to wear more quickly in comparison to the newer bearings.
I'm no expert in bearing clearances/material and oil viscosity. I can only say from what I've seen and experienced first hand - that I'd be most worried as an early 08 owner, and really wouldn't be worried at all if I had a newer version

[SenorFunkyPants]

To put it into perspective...on M3post there have been ~20 owner recorded S65 engine failures - less than half of these are bearing failures in stock engines. Somewhere around 1% is the typical big auto manufacturer engine failure rate for cars out of manufacture warranty but with a 3rd party extended warranty. Using that as a baseline you would expect to see as "normal" ~250 engine failures for the USA market. So 20 engine failures seems less than expected.
Of course plenty of anecdotal stories like - "my mate is fixing 2 engines a week" - but the number of actual owner recorded failures is reassuringly small.

[aus]

Originally Posted by SenorFunkyPants

To put it into perspective...on M3post there have been ~20 owner recorded S65 engine failures - less than half of these are bearing failures in stock engines. Somewhere around 1% is the typical big auto manufacturer engine failure rate for cars out of manufacture warranty but with a 3rd party extended warranty. Using that as a baseline you would expect to see as "normal" ~250 engine failures for the USA market. So 20 engine failures seems less than expected.
Of course plenty of anecdotal stories like - "my mate is fixing 2 engines a week" - but the number of actual owner recorded failures is reassuringly small.

The problem with your point is, you're assuming we have documented ALL the blown engines out there. We probably have 10% of the blown engines out there, since MOST owners aren't on forums. I personally know 4 other guys who owned or used to own an M3 and NEVER went on a any forum.

.

[dparm]

Originally Posted by Top_Gear

In the 5 years of ownership did you by any chance sent an oil sample for analysis to Blackstone Labs? I think many of us on this board would be interested in knowing what amounts of metal content your oil had before the failure.

It's very much possible that nothing would've shown up. UOAs are best used for understanding how a particular oil is working in a motor, not for getting a detailed analysis of the engine health. I have seen "perfect" UOAs from cars that had massive engine failures, or "dirty" UOAs from cars that cranked out many more miles.

[SenorFunkyPants]

Originally Posted by aus

The problem with your point is, you're assuming we have documented ALL the blown engines out there. We probably have 10% of the blown engines out there, since MOST owners aren't on forums. I personally know 4 other guys who owned or used to own an M3 and NEVER went on a any forum.

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I get that m3post doesn't represent all 25,000 USA M3 owners.
Who knows how many of the 181,000 registered m3post members own or have owned an E9x M3. But you have to admit <10 owner recorded engine failures due to bearings is hardly an epidemic.
It happens all the time - if enough people repeat something then soon its taken as fact regardless of the truth.

[aus]

Originally Posted by SenorFunkyPants

I get that m3post doesn't represent all 25,000 USA M3 owners.
Who knows how many of the 181,000 registered m3post members own or have owned an E9x M3. But you have to admit <10 owner recorded engine failures due to bearings is hardly an epidemic.
It happens all the time - if enough people repeat something then soon its taken as fact regardless of the truth.

I get what you're saying.
Of the flip side, I think it's burying your head in the sand if you think there's NO ISSUES at all with our engines. There have been plenty of newer engines that blew too, and almost all the bearings that have been swapped out have shown more damage than expected.

I wish it was a simple as taking an oil analysis and showing it BWM when the levels are high, but BMW doesn't car until it's blown. And if you're out of warranty, better go get a lawyer.

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[F80M]

Congrats getting money back.

Next preparing for your ass to be raped once you get GTR...lol