Moving o2 sensors with test pipes

[EnderG60]

EDIT : Before continuing, let it be known that THIS MOD DOES NOT WORK after a year my CEL came on and I will be putting my stock x-pipe back on as I have no evidence that any tune will allow track pipes to be run while being able to pass emissions.




So after doing much research I found that in order to do test pipes you would need a chip to stop the CEL from coming on. I then found that most all tunes only turn off the rear O2 sensor, which will stop the check engine light but wont pass the "readiness test" for emissions. I also heard the Evolve tune fixes this readiness issue but when I inquired about it I got no response. (Small update, I have been contacted by a tuner, I wont say who so dont ask, but apparently the current tunes can provide sensor readiness. That said I still dont think its worth it)

Not really wanting to spend $1000 for turning off an annoying light and maybe 5hp I decided since the stock mid pipes would still have the secondary cats why not use them for good.

So I got a spare mid pipe section and some MS test pipes, moved the rear o2 sensors to behind the secondary cats using some "J" pipes and made an o2 sensor extension wire using OEM connector parts(and they were not cheap ) but this is what I ended up with.


Welded the J pipes on, and capped the rear o2 port on the test pipes.



New mid pipes installed.


O2 sensors installed and extension run behind the heat shield.


Its been running like this for 3 days and about 50 miles so far and still no CEL so its working for now but only time will tell.

Ill post updates as I put more miles on it, but fingers crossed.

[Haywood]

Seems like a lot of work when they are cheaper alternatives, i.e., Delete R.

Also, not sure what you're reading, but test pipes/aftermarket x-pipe + tune gives you more than 5hp.

[PandaM3]

Would adding spacers to the 2ndry o2 sensors work?

I know it works for my wife's VW CC.

[Haywood]

Originally Posted by PandaM3

Would adding spacers to the 2ndry o2 sensors work?

I know it works for my wife's VW CC.

Yes. It worked for me when I tested it. Many have stated it's worked for them as well. < $30 solution.

[EnderG60]

Originally Posted by Haywood

Seems like a lot of work when they are cheaper alternatives, i.e., Delete R.

Also, not sure what you're reading, but test pipes/aftermarket x-pipe + tune gives you more than 5hp.

The Delete R is over $400, moving the sensors like this cost me a total of $200.

Yes the combo gives you WAY more then 5 hp, but the chip alone does not. The power is from the test pipes, not so much the tune. $250 for some used test pipes and $200 for some welding and wiring is a better deal.

Which would you rather do, this for $450, or test pipes and a tune for $1300+?

Also searching around I found almost everyone who just did o2 extension tubes with the test pipes said the CEL ended up coming back on eventually. I decided to try to utilize the secondary cats.

Will it work? I dont know yet, but I decided to try it and see. But so far Im giggling like a girl every time I floor it.

[M3an V8]

Any chance that you can post up part numbers for the connectors used for the O2 wire extension. I've been wanting to do this but I scrapped the idea when I couldn't find wire extensions, didn't want to hack up my O2 wires. Thanks.

[svinfinity]

The delete r just clears your cel every once in a while if im not mistaken. It does not force readiness.

[EnderG60]

Parts needed for this.

Male Pin - 8 - 12521744078
Female Pin - 8 - 12521740180
Female socket - 2 - 12521740486
Male socket - 2 - 12521740485
Grommets - 16 - 12521748973
(disclaimer these parts worked for my 2012 E92, no idea if they will work on other cars)

24ft of heat resistant wire. I used 16 ga wire rated for use in ovens.

2 of the J-shape o2 bungs, I got the Vibrant 1192 J-Shaped Oxygen Sensor Bung

And lastly two o2 sensor plugs.

The cable parts added up to about $100, $50 for the bungs, $15 for the plugs and my local exhaust shop charged me $20 to weld the bungs on where I marked the x-pipe.

I put another 100 miles of city and highway on the car and still no issues besides loud noises and a big smile.

And yes, there is no chip or code clearer available that will force readiness of the rear sensors(see some claims but zero verifiable info) Basically if you did what I did and paid someone to install it, it would still be cheaper than buying a Delete R.

[M3an V8]

Originally Posted by EnderG60

Parts needed for this.

Male Pin - 8 - 12521744078
Female Pin - 8 - 12521740180
Female socket - 2 - 12521740486
Male socket - 2 - 12521740485
Grommets - 16 - 12521748973
(disclaimer these parts worked for my 2012 E92, no idea if they will work on other cars)

24ft of heat resistant wire. I used 16 ga wire rated for use in ovens.

2 of the J-shape o2 bungs, I got the Vibrant 1192 J-Shaped Oxygen Sensor Bung

And lastly two o2 sensor plugs.

The cable parts added up to about $100, $50 for the bungs, $15 for the plugs and my local exhaust shop charged me $20 to weld the bungs on where I marked the x-pipe.

I put another 100 miles of city and highway on the car and still no issues besides loud noises and a big smile.

And yes, there is no chip or code clearer available that will force readiness of the rear sensors(see some claims but zero verifiable info) Basically if you did what I did and paid someone to install it, it would still be cheaper than buying a Delete R.

Thanks

[Edward]

Originally Posted by svinfinity

The delete r just clears your cel every once in a while if im not mistaken. It does not force readiness.

The Delete-R is also one of the worst products ever made for this car. It wipes and clears every possible error that would cause a CEL. It is just programmed to wipe codes and lie to you that all is good. You'd never know if your CEL was trying to surface for any other reason.

[powerbait]

I would think that your j-pipes alone would keep your CEL off since it effectively takes the sensors out of the exhaust stream. I remember about 15yrs ago I was able to trick odbII by simply wrapping my secondary o2 in foil and a placstic bag and zip-tieing up under the car. The defferential between the readings was enough to keep the light of. Granted that was on a turbo'd civic... the M3's computer may be slightly more advanced.

[EnderG60]

Yes the J-pipes definitely keep the sensors out of the exhaust stream which is a plus. But since you cant mount the sensors in a conventional way behind the secondary cats, its also needed to make it fit.

The sensors and computer are more advanced now yes, so they need to be able to sniff at least some exhaust gas (or you get a too lean code).

I figured with the sensors behind the cats and out of the main exhaust stream I would have a 2 fold chance of this working.

Im now over 200 miles of highway, city and bad traffic driving and still no CEL or any other issues.

[WhatsADSM]

Thank you so much for posting this!

I was contemplating doing this, but this very forum had a similar thread where someone posted something simple like "it has been tried and didn't work" but when pressed they offered no other explanation. I would think that simply moving them behind the secondary cats would work let alone out of the stream. I had been hesitant to try it myself but now hearing that you got it going I will probably give it a shot.

Big thanks on the wiring part numbers as well.

[M3an V8]

Still have the CEL off? Gathering the parts to do this.

[EnderG60]

So far, so good.

Didnt drive much this week but still no issues.

[Jonzny]

So just to clarify, you put the J-pipes behind the secondary cats? (closer to the muffler? and extended the primary cat O2 sensors to the J-pipe? With this you pass Readiness test? and get no CEL? And don't have a tune to shut off O2 sensors, which essentially just removes the CEL?

[EnderG60]

Almost. Yes the J-pipes are behind the secondary cats( closer to the muffler but before the resonators)

It is the secondary 02 sensors that are moved though. There is a primary set that goes before the first set of cats. Those stay where they are. The sensors that are located behind the primary cats are the ones being extended to the J-tubes.

This will pass readiness because you are not changing anything in the computer that has to do with the sensors. They still work as they are intended.

The secondary sensors are there to test the difference in signal as the exhaust goes past the cat to make sure its working. That is why if you do the test pipes and nothing else the sensors read the same showing the cat is gone or not working giving you a CEL. Or if you just leave them hanging out or to far out of the exhaust stream it starts reading to much of a difference and you get a CEL.

So far yes you are correct, this is keeping my CEL from coming on and the car is performing wonderfully. That said its been about 1000 miles and I wont say this is a confirmed solution until I have 5-6000 miles on it.

[Jonzny]

Originally Posted by EnderG60

Almost. Yes the J-pipes are behind the secondary cats( closer to the muffler but before the resonators)

It is the secondary 02 sensors that are moved though. There is a primary set that goes before the first set of cats. Those stay where they are. The sensors that are located behind the primary cats are the ones being extended to the J-tubes.

This will pass readiness because you are not changing anything in the computer that has to do with the sensors. They still work as they are intended.

The secondary sensors are there to test the difference in signal as the exhaust goes past the cat to make sure its working. That is why if you do the test pipes and nothing else the sensors read the same showing the cat is gone or not working giving you a CEL. Or if you just leave them hanging out or to far out of the exhaust stream it starts reading to much of a difference and you get a CEL.

So far yes you are correct, this is keeping my CEL from coming on and the car is performing wonderfully. That said its been about 1000 miles and I wont say this is a confirmed solution until I have 5-6000 miles on it.

Cool, so then what did you use to plug the location where the secondary sensors are mounted from the factory?

[EnderG60]

Just a basic O2 sensor plug, Seen them anywhere from $3 for AL to $7 for steel.

[Lunker325]

Nice solution, looking forward to more updates as the miles accumulate.

[azndrunk74]

Very nice. Crazy it took this long for someone to finally figure out a working solution! Bravo.

[Mr. Liu]

Originally Posted by Edward

The Delete-R is also one of the worst products ever made for this car. It wipes and clears every possible error that would cause a CEL. It is just programmed to wipe codes and lie to you that all is good. You'd never know if your CEL was trying to surface for any other reason.

I am not sure that is true - I called Akra to specifically ask them and they said it only suppresses emissions faults, not everything related to a CEL.