Making a cat-less, downpiped, M3 legal in NJ

Rockfresh15 · 03-29-2021, 10:19 PM

The basic situation is this:

I'm looking at an e92 M3 I'd REALLY like to purchase, but trying to get a full idea of the scope of work needed to have it pass emissions in NJ.

Mods:
Headers (will find out which brand tomorrow)
cat-less downpipes, no catalytic converters
O2 sensors coded out

I realize the type of headers is important here and will find that out, but trying to get an idea for the parts I'll need and what I might be looking at cost-wise to make this pass inspection in NJ, which as I understand so far uses OBD2 (and would fail immediately having the O2s coded out, so will need to refresh PCM it sounds), and requires cats.

The car's out of state, so I'm just relaying info from my PPI mechanic to my local one, tryna get an idea for options..so,

What are my options here? Could something like this be all I need?

gtenedio · 03-29-2021, 11:00 PM

find a small garage that does inspection, and take care of them.

amrazM · 03-30-2021, 05:11 AM

arh catted headers will pass with e46m rear o2s.

CamasM3e93 · 03-30-2021, 09:42 AM

I don't think their OBD2 scan will be sophisticated enough to detect software changes but I've been wrong before. They are probably doing the scan to look for thrown engine codes and if your software changes eliminate those - you should be ok. It's been 20+ years since I had a car inspected in NJ - but at the time shops didn't do the inspections - they were performed at a large state run center. I don't recall if they sniffed the exhaust - but if they do - you'll never pass without cats.

Rockfresh15 · 03-31-2021, 08:58 AM

A muffler shop in my area says if the O2 sensors are coded out then it's gonna fail immediately from the OBD2 scan.

The car is out of state and I'm working with my mechanic and the dealers to see what needs to be done. Is it as simple as getting an aftermarket or stock x-pipe? Like this?

https://bomizshop.com/collections/e9...-x-pipe-street

Richbot · 03-31-2021, 09:13 AM

I'd look at buying a nice high-quality cat and just having them welded in between the primary and secondary bungs. I wouldn't screw around with trying to make an aftermarket catted pipe work, because none of them are a sure thing anyway except maybe the AFE, and they probably won't fit with the headers on the car anyway. I don't think any of the aftermarket headers are bolt-on to stock fitment xpipes? IIRC BW and ARH both use slip fits

Also, that Bomiz product you keep linking to has the cats in the wrong place for OBD compliance anyway. Cats need to be between the primary and secondary O2 bungs to have a chance at passing OBD2 readiness check on those monitors

amrazM · 03-31-2021, 09:14 AM

If you have aftermarket long tube headers no stock style x pipe is going to solve your problems. you will run into some issues with catalytic placement and getting the rear o2s to read properly. if you state what headers are in the car it would be invaluable information.

Deebo · 04-01-2021, 08:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by amrazM

arh catted headers will pass with e46m rear o2s.

I’m assuming you’re speaking from experience- any other details to share? I have been thinking about headers for both sound and more power on my supercharged setup. Any videos? Not sure if I’ve heard the catted headers before.

dpaul · 04-05-2021, 06:02 AM

OP is asking about New Jersey? And the car already has headers, catless DP and O2 "coded out"?

Then your car will pass, as is.

Like many other states, NJ allows one not-ready flag on a non-continuous OBDII emission monitor. .

That means you can install your catless downpipes or headers and easily pass inspection in NJ, AS LONG AS YOU HAVE A TUNE INSTALLED that disables monitor checking for the post-cat O2 sensors. Type of header is irrelevant. Your "coded out" statement implies that the vehicle already has some sort of tune installed. To be sure, it is possible to disable post-cat monitor checking without a full tune but that is pretty uncommon with the MSS60 DME.

No other modification needed (Does not apply to California which has stricter standards than the other states)

Of course, you must be careful that all other monitors (evap, O2 heater etc, etc) are set (ready) and of course, the MIL (check engine light) is off.

To be clear, O2 sensors are not "coded out". They are still in place and still report values to the DME. What is coded out is OBDII emission monitor readiness. Thus, the DME reports part of the emission control system as "not ready" to do the testing it is designed to do. As mentioned above, you are allowed one not-ready flag.

Rockfresh15 · 04-05-2021, 09:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dpaul

OP is asking about New Jersey? And the car already has headers, catless DP and O2 "coded out"?

Then your car will pass, as is.

Like many other states, NJ allows one not-ready flag on a non-continuous OBDII emission monitor. .

That means you can install your catless downpipes or headers and easily pass inspection in NJ, AS LONG AS YOU HAVE A TUNE INSTALLED that disables monitor checking for the post-cat O2 sensors. Type of header is irrelevant. Your "coded out" statement implies that the vehicle already has some sort of tune installed. To be sure, it is possible to disable post-cat monitor checking without a full tune but that is pretty uncommon with the MSS60 DME.

No other modification needed (Does not apply to California which has stricter standards than the other states)

Of course, you must be careful that all other monitors (evap, O2 heater etc, etc) are set (ready) and of course, the MIL (check engine light) is off.

To be clear, O2 sensors are not "coded out". They are still in place and still report values to the DME. What is coded out is OBDII emission monitor readiness. Thus, the DME reports part of the emission control system as "not ready" to do the testing it is designed to do. As mentioned above, you are allowed one not-ready flag.

Right, my muffler shop was saying that about the "not ready flag" but he seemed to think that if the OBDII emission monitor is coded out, it would immediately fail. But it seems you're saying it will just count as the 1 flag.

The other concern that was brought up is if the engine has a tune, then how can/do I know if other tweaks have been made or if other warning lights (check engine, etc.) may be being suppressed? Is this something to be concerned or cautious of?

dpaul · 04-05-2021, 11:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rockfresh15

Right, my muffler shop was saying that about the "not ready flag" but he seemed to think that if the OBDII emission monitor is coded out, it would immediately fail. But it seems you're saying it will just count as the 1 flag.

The other concern that was brought up is if the engine has a tune, then how can/do I know if other tweaks have been made or if other warning lights (check engine, etc.) may be being suppressed? Is this something to be concerned or cautious of?

There is nothing to worry about in terms of other possible changes related to safety/emission. There's nothing else worth suppressing except maybe evap (DTML) which can be very annoying to get set sometimes.

It's worth trying to find out what kind of tune was installed and what parameters the tune was built around, for example, does it require 93 octane fuel or is 91 OK. It's worth trying to obtain the coding cable that came with the tune. Since tunes are almost always locked and encoded, you need that original cable to switch back and forth with stock at will. Without that cable, if some service person flashes an 'update' stock file, you will lose the tune forever. By the way, the convention in this area is that 'ownership' of the tune does not transfer with ownership of the vehicle so good luck trying to get the vendor to help you restore or modify it. But that's a rant for another day.

amrazM · 04-05-2021, 11:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dpaul

OP is asking about New Jersey? And the car already has headers, catless DP and O2 "coded out"?

Then your car will pass, as is.

Like many other states, NJ allows one not-ready flag on a non-continuous OBDII emission monitor. .

That means you can install your catless downpipes or headers and easily pass inspection in NJ, AS LONG AS YOU HAVE A TUNE INSTALLED that disables monitor checking for the post-cat O2 sensors. Type of header is irrelevant. Your "coded out" statement implies that the vehicle already has some sort of tune installed. To be sure, it is possible to disable post-cat monitor checking without a full tune but that is pretty uncommon with the MSS60 DME.

No other modification needed (Does not apply to California which has stricter standards than the other states)

Of course, you must be careful that all other monitors (evap, O2 heater etc, etc) are set (ready) and of course, the MIL (check engine light) is off.

To be clear, O2 sensors are not "coded out". They are still in place and still report values to the DME. What is coded out is OBDII emission monitor readiness. Thus, the DME reports part of the emission control system as "not ready" to do the testing it is designed to do. As mentioned above, you are allowed one not-ready flag.

You are actually mistaken, you cant have it coded out as "coding it out" will make heated catalyst show "OFF" in which case it will be an automatic failure as it will indicate and emissions control device is being tampered with.

Most tunes will supress the fault light but will prohibit catalyst and heated o2 from going "READY" therefore the car will not pass. I've been through this before, what i suggested in my first post is the only "LTH" setup that will pass emissions.

dpaul · 04-05-2021, 11:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by amrazM

You are actually mistaken, you cant have it coded out as "coding it out" will make heated catalyst show "OFF" in which case it will be an automatic failure as it will indicate and emissions control device is being tampered with.

Most tunes will supress the fault light but will prohibit catalyst and heated o2 from going "READY" therefore the car will not pass. I've been through this before, what i suggested in my first post is the only "LTH" setup that will pass emissions.

Sorry, this is just not true. Prohibiting the catalyst monitor from going "READY" is all you have to do. In states that allow one not-ready monitor, you will pass. I have downpipe equipped E90 M3 and a downpipe equipped E90 335xi. Both are self-tuned and in both I disable catalyst monitor readiness in exactly the same way that professional tuners do.

It's not magic. It's not even rocket science

Rockfresh15 · 04-05-2021, 09:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dpaul

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rockfresh15

Right, my muffler shop was saying that about the "not ready flag" but he seemed to think that if the OBDII emission monitor is coded out, it would immediately fail. But it seems you're saying it will just count as the 1 flag.

The other concern that was brought up is if the engine has a tune, then how can/do I know if other tweaks have been made or if other warning lights (check engine, etc.) may be being suppressed? Is this something to be concerned or cautious of?

There is nothing to worry about in terms of other possible changes related to safety/emission. There's nothing else worth suppressing except maybe evap (DTML) which can be very annoying to get set sometimes.

It's worth trying to find out what kind of tune was installed and what parameters the tune was built around, for example, does it require 93 octane fuel or is 91 OK. It's worth trying to obtain the coding cable that came with the tune. Since tunes are almost always locked and encoded, you need that original cable to switch back and forth with stock at will. Without that cable, if some service person flashes an 'update' stock file, you will lose the tune forever. By the way, the convention in this area is that 'ownership' of the tune does not transfer with ownership of the vehicle so good luck trying to get the vendor to help you restore or modify it. But that's a rant for another day.

Hmm that sounds concerning. The car is at a dealer who bought it from auction so they have no insight as to tunes or if there may be one on it, the PPI is the one who suspected it based on the O2/catless downpipe situation.

Is there a way for me to figure out what tune is on there? Without knowing that am I putting myself in a precarious situation buying this car? Like, could I get it, not know the tune, have it updated by a service person and end up with all kinds of issues? Or some other unsavory situation? Trying to understand the precariousness/risks of the situation. Thanks!

pbonsalb · 04-06-2021, 06:10 AM

Or have to swap back to stock headers and midpipe and tune. A day of labor plus some used parts.

dpaul · 04-06-2021, 06:44 AM

It is almost certain that an aftermarket tune has been installed - otherwise you'd have a MIL from cat removal. In the absence of the tuning cable and/or tune files, it takes significant technical knowledge and some specialized hardware to get any information regarding the tune which wouldn't be worth the effort. To address your concern, you would have a problem if you took the car to the dealer and they updated your DME, which they sometimes do. The stock tune would not provide correct fueling and ignition for the installed mods but much worse, you'd get an MIL because the cats are gone and you would not pass future inspections. So just don't take it to a dealer or if you do, insist that no modules be updated.

Like @pbonsalb states, your worst case scenario related to tune/modifications is that you have to remove the headers and catless exhaust components, replace them with stock and flash a stock tune to the DME.

You could probably find used stock exhaust component for (I'll make a somewhat wild guess) about $1K. Replacing the headers is certainly a days labor so add another $800-$1200 or DIY. Probably don't actually need to replace the headers which likely would work with a stock cats/midpipe/crossover. A lot less labor to just replace the post header exhaust. You can do it on jack stands although that is not my idea of fun.

Flashing the stock tune involves free factory software (WinKFP) that runs on a PC (or a VM on a Mac), a $45 cable (you MUST use a Bimmergeeks.net cable) and a 30A power supply (or jumper cables and another car)

Since you have no information about the car's provenance, my biggest concern would be its maintenance history and how previous owner(s) might have used it.

pbonsalb · 04-06-2021, 07:41 AM

The two aftermarket headers that I am aware of, ARH and Bimmerworld, don’t fit a stock midpipe.

dpaul · 04-06-2021, 08:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pbonsalb

The two aftermarket headers that I am aware of, ARH and Bimmerworld, don’t fit a stock midpipe.

Good to know. Was just spitballing on the notion of interchangeability

Actually, looking at the stock header design, it’s hard to see how there is much room for improvement

Rockfresh15 · 04-06-2021, 09:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dpaul

It is almost certain that an aftermarket tune has been installed - otherwise you'd have a MIL from cat removal. In the absence of the tuning cable and/or tune files, it takes significant technical knowledge and some specialized hardware to get any information regarding the tune which wouldn't be worth the effort. To address your concern, you would have a problem if you took the car to the dealer and they updated your DME, which they sometimes do. The stock tune would not provide correct fueling and ignition for the installed mods but much worse, you'd get an MIL because the cats are gone and you would not pass future inspections. So just don't take it to a dealer or if you do, insist that no modules be updated.

Like @pbonsalb states, your worst case scenario related to tune/modifications is that you have to remove the headers and catless exhaust components, replace them with stock and flash a stock tune to the DME.

You could probably find used stock exhaust component for (I'll make a somewhat wild guess) about $1K. Replacing the headers is certainly a days labor so add another $800-$1200 or DIY. Probably don't actually need to replace the headers which likely would work with a stock cats/midpipe/crossover. A lot less labor to just replace the post header exhaust. You can do it on jack stands although that is not my idea of fun.

Flashing the stock tune involves free factory software (WinKFP) that runs on a PC (or a VM on a Mac), a $45 cable (you MUST use a Bimmergeeks.net cable) and a 30A power supply (or jumper cables and another car)

Since you have no information about the car's provenance, my biggest concern would be its maintenance history and how previous owner(s) might have used it.

Got it. Well I'm thinking, at this point, (since I love just about everything else about this car) that if I'm able to get it I will, and just take it to inspection to see if it passes, then if it fails look about fabricating something with cats with my local muffler shop or source the used OEM midpipe/headers. Oh and avoid dealer DME updates (I'd likely be avoiding dealers anyway). Sound about like the long and short of it?

Also, feels like I'd like to know what tune is on there just to know..think a specialized shop, like autocouture for instance, might be able to figure it out?

Richbot · 04-06-2021, 10:11 AM

I know there are some signals as to how certain tuners manipulate certain things and not others, but I don't think there is anything you can pull out of the DME data that says "Copyright ESS Tuning" or whatever on it Honestly probably the best way to be sure what tune is on it is to get it tuned again by somebody who knows what they're doing

dpaul · 04-06-2021, 10:32 AM

(My) last word on the subject - make sure that there are no other flags "not ready" besides cat BEFORE you show up at the inspection station. If any are, you will fail. On occasion, the consequences of failing are to be referred to a DMV or state-run inspection facility. If that happens in MA, they will find your catless pipes and you will be forced to replace them.

Rockfresh15 · 04-06-2021, 02:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Richbot

I know there are some signals as to how certain tuners manipulate certain things and not others, but I don't think there is anything you can pull out of the DME data that says "Copyright ESS Tuning" or whatever on it Honestly probably the best way to be sure what tune is on it is to get it tuned again by somebody who knows what they're doing

Meaning a shop that's taking into account the headers and whatever exhaust setup I end up with?

Cause I'm wondering what the worst case scenario is if I got the stock tune flashed back. I recall my mechanic warning there could be engine timing things affected or other such things and cause a bit of chaos. I guess the point of doing a third-party tune would be to make sure they're tuning for the car's current state properly, and not its typically stock form?

03-29-2021, 10:19 PM	#1
Rockfresh15 Private 31 Rep 73 Posts Drives: 2013 e92 Join Date: Aug 2017 Location: North Jersey iTrader: (0)	Making a cat-less, downpiped, M3 legal in NJ The basic situation is this: I'm looking at an e92 M3 I'd REALLY like to purchase, but trying to get a full idea of the scope of work needed to have it pass emissions in NJ. Mods: Headers (will find out which brand tomorrow) cat-less downpipes, no catalytic converters O2 sensors coded out I realize the type of headers is important here and will find that out, but trying to get an idea for the parts I'll need and what I might be looking at cost-wise to make this pass inspection in NJ, which as I understand so far uses OBD2 (and would fail immediately having the O2s coded out, so will need to refresh PCM it sounds), and requires cats. The car's out of state, so I'm just relaying info from my PPI mechanic to my local one, tryna get an idea for options..so, What are my options here? Could something like this be all I need? Last edited by Rockfresh15; 03-30-2021 at 08:36 AM..
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03-29-2021, 11:00 PM	#2
gtenedio Major 376 Rep 1,269 Posts Drives: '%E2%80%9909 e92 m3, '19 X3, % Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: nyc iTrader: (1)	find a small garage that does inspection, and take care of them. __________________ .
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03-30-2021, 05:11 AM	#3
amrazM mTekMods 2478 Rep 3,150 Posts Drives: like a granny. Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Manhatan iTrader: (1)	arh catted headers will pass with e46m rear o2s. __________________ E90M3 - Satin Black F97 X3M - Brooklyn Grey E39 M5 - Silverstone
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03-30-2021, 09:42 AM	#4
CamasM3e93 Friends don't let friends ESS 4799 Rep 1,152 Posts Drives: '11 Lemans Blue 6mt Harrop e90 Join Date: Dec 2020 Location: Camas, WA iTrader: (0) Garage List 2011 E90 M3 [9.00] 2003 Porsche 911 Turbo [9.83] 2019 BMW X5 xDrive40i [0.00] 2013 Mercedes E550 ... [0.00]	I don't think their OBD2 scan will be sophisticated enough to detect software changes but I've been wrong before. They are probably doing the scan to look for thrown engine codes and if your software changes eliminate those - you should be ok. It's been 20+ years since I had a car inspected in NJ - but at the time shops didn't do the inspections - they were performed at a large state run center. I don't recall if they sniffed the exhaust - but if they do - you'll never pass without cats.
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03-31-2021, 08:58 AM	#5
Rockfresh15 Private 31 Rep 73 Posts Drives: 2013 e92 Join Date: Aug 2017 Location: North Jersey iTrader: (0)	A muffler shop in my area says if the O2 sensors are coded out then it's gonna fail immediately from the OBD2 scan. The car is out of state and I'm working with my mechanic and the dealers to see what needs to be done. Is it as simple as getting an aftermarket or stock x-pipe? Like this? https://bomizshop.com/collections/e9...-x-pipe-street
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03-31-2021, 09:13 AM	#6
Richbot Major General 2835 Rep 5,493 Posts Drives: Jerez Black E90 Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: STL iTrader: (5)	I'd look at buying a nice high-quality cat and just having them welded in between the primary and secondary bungs. I wouldn't screw around with trying to make an aftermarket catted pipe work, because none of them are a sure thing anyway except maybe the AFE, and they probably won't fit with the headers on the car anyway. I don't think any of the aftermarket headers are bolt-on to stock fitment xpipes? IIRC BW and ARH both use slip fits Also, that Bomiz product you keep linking to has the cats in the wrong place for OBD compliance anyway. Cats need to be between the primary and secondary O2 bungs to have a chance at passing OBD2 readiness check on those monitors __________________
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03-31-2021, 09:14 AM	#7
amrazM mTekMods 2478 Rep 3,150 Posts Drives: like a granny. Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Manhatan iTrader: (1)	If you have aftermarket long tube headers no stock style x pipe is going to solve your problems. you will run into some issues with catalytic placement and getting the rear o2s to read properly. if you state what headers are in the car it would be invaluable information. __________________ E90M3 - Satin Black F97 X3M - Brooklyn Grey E39 M5 - Silverstone
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04-05-2021, 06:02 AM	#9
dpaul Lieutenant Colonel 679 Rep 1,893 Posts Drives: 2009 E90 335xi, 2011 E93 M3 Join Date: Dec 2012 Location: Boston iTrader: (3)	OP is asking about New Jersey? And the car already has headers, catless DP and O2 "coded out"? Then your car will pass, as is. Like many other states, NJ allows one not-ready flag on a non-continuous OBDII emission monitor. . That means you can install your catless downpipes or headers and easily pass inspection in NJ, AS LONG AS YOU HAVE A TUNE INSTALLED that disables monitor checking for the post-cat O2 sensors. Type of header is irrelevant. Your "coded out" statement implies that the vehicle already has some sort of tune installed. To be sure, it is possible to disable post-cat monitor checking without a full tune but that is pretty uncommon with the MSS60 DME. No other modification needed (Does not apply to California which has stricter standards than the other states) Of course, you must be careful that all other monitors (evap, O2 heater etc, etc) are set (ready) and of course, the MIL (check engine light) is off. To be clear, O2 sensors are not "coded out". They are still in place and still report values to the DME. What is coded out is OBDII emission monitor readiness. Thus, the DME reports part of the emission control system as "not ready" to do the testing it is designed to do. As mentioned above, you are allowed one not-ready flag. Last edited by dpaul; 04-05-2021 at 06:09 AM..
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04-06-2021, 06:10 AM	#15
pbonsalb Lieutenant General 7679 Rep 13,759 Posts Drives: 18 F90 M5, 99 E36 M3 Turbo Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: New England iTrader: (4)	Or have to swap back to stock headers and midpipe and tune. A day of labor plus some used parts.
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04-06-2021, 06:44 AM	#16
dpaul Lieutenant Colonel 679 Rep 1,893 Posts Drives: 2009 E90 335xi, 2011 E93 M3 Join Date: Dec 2012 Location: Boston iTrader: (3)	It is almost certain that an aftermarket tune has been installed - otherwise you'd have a MIL from cat removal. In the absence of the tuning cable and/or tune files, it takes significant technical knowledge and some specialized hardware to get any information regarding the tune which wouldn't be worth the effort. To address your concern, you would have a problem if you took the car to the dealer and they updated your DME, which they sometimes do. The stock tune would not provide correct fueling and ignition for the installed mods but much worse, you'd get an MIL because the cats are gone and you would not pass future inspections. So just don't take it to a dealer or if you do, insist that no modules be updated. Like @pbonsalb states, your worst case scenario related to tune/modifications is that you have to remove the headers and catless exhaust components, replace them with stock and flash a stock tune to the DME. You could probably find used stock exhaust component for (I'll make a somewhat wild guess) about $1K. Replacing the headers is certainly a days labor so add another $800-$1200 or DIY. Probably don't actually need to replace the headers which likely would work with a stock cats/midpipe/crossover. A lot less labor to just replace the post header exhaust. You can do it on jack stands although that is not my idea of fun. Flashing the stock tune involves free factory software (WinKFP) that runs on a PC (or a VM on a Mac), a $45 cable (you MUST use a Bimmergeeks.net cable) and a 30A power supply (or jumper cables and another car) Since you have no information about the car's provenance, my biggest concern would be its maintenance history and how previous owner(s) might have used it. Last edited by dpaul; 04-06-2021 at 07:08 AM..
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04-06-2021, 07:41 AM	#17
pbonsalb Lieutenant General 7679 Rep 13,759 Posts Drives: 18 F90 M5, 99 E36 M3 Turbo Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: New England iTrader: (4)	The two aftermarket headers that I am aware of, ARH and Bimmerworld, don’t fit a stock midpipe.
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04-06-2021, 10:11 AM	#20
Richbot Major General 2835 Rep 5,493 Posts Drives: Jerez Black E90 Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: STL iTrader: (5)	I know there are some signals as to how certain tuners manipulate certain things and not others, but I don't think there is anything you can pull out of the DME data that says "Copyright ESS Tuning" or whatever on it Honestly probably the best way to be sure what tune is on it is to get it tuned again by somebody who knows what they're doing __________________
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04-06-2021, 10:32 AM	#21
dpaul Lieutenant Colonel 679 Rep 1,893 Posts Drives: 2009 E90 335xi, 2011 E93 M3 Join Date: Dec 2012 Location: Boston iTrader: (3)	(My) last word on the subject - make sure that there are no other flags "not ready" besides cat BEFORE you show up at the inspection station. If any are, you will fail. On occasion, the consequences of failing are to be referred to a DMV or state-run inspection facility. If that happens in MA, they will find your catless pipes and you will be forced to replace them.
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