Brade Pad Review Chat

[former 240 s14]

Hello everyone!

I think it would be helpful if we put together a PAD review for the E9X Chassis. Brake pad characteristic preference is very specific to the driver. I'm lucky enough to track and race a few different E9X M3's with different setups. My current setup, AP 9668/9449 BBK, doesn't offer the pad selection that is my typical go to (Hawk DTC-60) so I am doing lots of research but can't find anything specific. So here goes what I know to be my feedback on pads. If anyone knows of a PAD with similar characteristics to the DTC-60 please let me know!


Hawk DTC-60 - Medium initial bite, great modulation and brake release. Must get hot or pads are useless. Good life expetency as well.

Hawk ERS - Not enough of a longevity advantage to run versus DTC-60. Less feel and bite, un-material advantage of longevity.

Ferodo DS3.12 - Huge initial bite but pedal feel and release are at a disadvantage, at least compared to DTC-60. Good longevity especially in the 25MM thickness. Not as great of pedal feel as the DTC-60.

Hope this helps people out there and would love to get a list of reviews out here!

Rubin

[1FastSicilian]

So I was looking at all different pads for my 9668 bbk and I ended up going with PFC331/332 pads from BW and I'm glad I did..

I ran DTC60 and DTC70s in the past and all thought these PFCs dont have same initial bite, they are much more consistent in every way! I felt the DTCs got worse as they wore down..

[///Mac]

I'm running PFC 11's and they are great. Consistent feel and hold up to abuse.

[former 240 s14]

Thanks for the feedback! Looking at PFC's website below is a screenshot of their portfolio. Not a personal fan of degressive pads so the 11's are looking more my style.

[former 240 s14]

Originally Posted by ///Mac

I'm running PFC 11's and they are great. Consistent feel and hold up to abuse.

Do they make rear pads for the AP kit as well? Can't find them on Bimmerworld.

[///Mac]

Sorry I'm not sure... I use them on stock rotors/calipers... but if they make the fronts for AP I'd assume the rears are avail somewhere?

[tdott]

Originally Posted by former 240 s14

Hawk DTC-60 - Medium initial bite, great modulation and brake release. Must get hot or pads are useless. Good life expectancy as well.

Have you run DTC70 in comparison?

I have only run DTC70 front only on stock brakes, currently on f8x brakes and ran Ferodo 1.11 and DTC70. 1.11 were quieter, the dtc70s squeal a lot, I felt like the 1.11 had better modulation and better feel but trailed off at the end of the braking zone, DTC70s were more consistent in the braking zone but with a bit less feel.

Currently sticking with the Hawks because FCP, but im sure there are better options out there.

[M3SQRD]

Originally Posted by former 240 s14

Thanks for the feedback! Looking at PFC's website below is a screenshot of their portfolio. Not a personal fan of degressive pads so the 11's are looking more my style.

PFC 11 is progressive so you have more braking torque at the end of a braking zone compared to the beginning of a braking zone. You need to look at the CoF vs. Temperature curve to gain more insight into how a pad performs. PFC11 gives you confidence that they’ll be there at the end of a high-speed long braking zone. They have an extremely high temperature resistance/tolerance.

I’ve used PFC 97, 01, 03, 05, 07, 11, 13, 15 and 39.

01 Compound that set the standard and still is a great compound. It has a high initial bite with high torque that’s pretty stable with temperature, nice release, consistent and predictable at the end of a stop with good modulation. Low pad wear and good rotor conditioning/wear.

03 Compound is similar to 01 but higher initial bite and torque than the 01 Compound. Slight torque rise with temperature which gives you confidence in heavy braking zones. Can over power sticky tires so it requires a more delicate initial application relative to 01 Compound.

05 Compound is my favorite PFC compound. It has a smooth initial bite, and very little torque rise with temperature, excellent release characteristics and great modulation. Although the initial torque application is smooth, it doesn’t mean the torque is low!

07 Compound’s initial bite is higher than 05 compound. CoF rises slightly with temperature but has an extremely high temperature limit. You can beat the crap out of this pad and it will never give up.

11 Compound is my 2nd favorite PFC compound. It was derived from the 01 Compound. It has improved bite, improved modulation and exit release characteristics. Lower initial torque but rising CoF with temperature so torque increases throughout the braking event. Excellent pad wear and phenomenal rotor conditioning/wear. Best compound for cars without downforce.

13 Compound has very high initial bite and very high CoF with temperature so extremely fade resistant. Smooth pad with great release characteristics, superior control and modulation. Pad wear matches 01 Compound but with good rotor conditioning/wear. Need extremely sticky tire and/or functional aero.

15 Compound is similar to 13 Compound but with a lower CoF with temperature so easier to modulate. Good pad wear and improved rotor conditioning/wear compared to 13 Compound.

39 Compound is similar to 13 except for higher torque in the last 1/3rd of the braking event. Very high initial bite but predictable/consistent due to its high temperature resistance. Requires a smooth initial brake application to prevent over powering of the tires. Functional aero highly recommended.

I’ve also used Hawk DTC70, Hawk DTC60, Cobalt XR1 and Cobalt XR2, and CT XP12, XP18 & XP20. Not a fan of Hawk DTC compounds. Cobalt XR1 is similar to PFC 05 and XR2 is similar to PFC 01. CT pads are my backup pads if I’m unable to get PFC compounds I’m looking for. CT was the first company to make custom pads for the ZR31 calipers.

[sperkins]

I used Cobalt XR2 for the fronts (ST60), and XR4 for the rear (factory caliper/rotor) for the first time this weekend at Sonoma. Coming from DTC60, it was a night and day difference. The harder i got into the pedal the better they worked. Bedding in was minimal. I literally installed the pads, and drove to the track. I did use a honing tool to clean the previous pad material off of the rotors.
Call Eddie @ Cobalt. He's a racer, knows our cars well, and will get you dialed in for your specific application.

[Ximian]

These are the three brake pad compounds I've tried with Pirelli DH slicks that actually fit the StopTech ST60 caliper without modifying the backing plate. Stock cooling (e.g. nothing at all) for the brakes.

CarboTech XP20 on ST60 - lots of stopping power, more than you need. But it's a lot of fun.
CarboTech XP12 on ST60 - you can wear it out completely in a day, two days if you're taking it easy.
Ferodo 3.12 on ST60 - lots of stopping power, more than you need. But it's twice the price of the XP20.

PFC11 for the stock rear - pairs well with XP20 or 3.12 in the front.
XP20 for the stock rear - pairs well with the XP20 or 3.12 in the front.

[kolosy]

Originally Posted by Ximian

These are the three brake pad compounds I've tried with Pirelli DH slicks that actually fit the StopTech ST60 caliper without modifying the backing plate. Stock cooling (e.g. nothing at all) for the brakes.

CarboTech XP20 on ST60 - lots of stopping power, more than you need. But it's a lot of fun.
CarboTech XP12 on ST60 - you can wear it out completely in a day, two days if you're taking it easy.
Ferodo 3.12 on ST60 - lots of stopping power, more than you need. But it's twice the price of the XP20.

PFC11 for the stock rear - pairs well with XP20 or 3.12 in the front.
XP20 for the stock rear - pairs well with the XP20 or 3.12 in the front.

your comment about wearing out the xp12 in a day makes me feel really good. i've been destroying brake pads left and right and hearing people have their pads last for 10+ track days (caveat emptor, of course).

On the E90 with the Paragon BBK (9668 equivalent), most of these on a brake-heavy 2 mile track

Ferodo 1.11 front / DSUno rear -- rears down to backing plate in a day, fronts lasting two days.

XP12 front / XP10 rear -- reasonable initial bite, but does tend to fade quickly on a heavy car like the E90. about 2 track days of life out of the fronts, a lot more on the rears

XP20 front / XP10 rear -- excellent initial bite though it softens up a bit as they warm up. I'm running 20/20 on the G80 which is heavier than the E90, and I think as long as you don't overheat them you should be able to get 4-5 days out of a set.

[M3SQRD]

Originally Posted by kolosy

your comment about wearing out the xp12 in a day makes me feel really good. i've been destroying brake pads left and right and hearing people have their pads last for 10+ track days (caveat emptor, of course).

On the E90 with the Paragon BBK (9668 equivalent), most of these on a brake-heavy 2 mile track

Ferodo 1.11 front / DSUno rear -- rears down to backing plate in a day, fronts lasting two days.

XP12 front / XP10 rear -- reasonable initial bite, but does tend to fade quickly on a heavy car like the E90. about 2 track days of life out of the fronts, a lot more on the rears

XP20 front / XP10 rear -- excellent initial bite though it softens up a bit as they warm up. I'm running 20/20 on the G80 which is heavier than the E90, and I think as long as you don't overheat them you should be able to get 4-5 days out of a set.

Just because a caliper uses the same pad, it doesn’t make them equivalent. The Paragon caliper uses one of the pad profiles used in at least 40+ different calipers. The Paragon uses a design matching the AP Racing CP5555 caliper design from the 1990s, not the AP Racing Pro5000R CP9668 caliper or the Alcon CR6420 caliper (as well as used in several Alcon calipers, several AP Racing Calipers, Paragon calipers, etc.). My AP Racing brake kit for my e46 M3 from 2003 used the CP5555 design (18 mm-thick pad). Paragon uses the 18 mm-thick version of the CP3894D54 pad profile (see pics below for AP caliper and pad profile). The CP3894D54 pad, which is identical to Hawk HB109, PFC 7790, Cobalt AP19, Carbotech CTCP3894D54/CTCP7790, Ferodo 3014, Paragon PBP819SN, etc. The CP9668, which I use on my f82 with CP9449 on the rear, uses a 25 mm-thick pad and the Paragon PA035 uses only an 18 mm-thick pad - clearly not equivalent calipers.

I’ve used Carbotech XP10 (s2000), XP12 (e46 M3, e92 M3), XP18 (e46 M3, CT stopped production when family members had a falling out and the split started G-Loc Brakes which has identical pad compounds to CT), XP20 (e46 M3, e92M3). I have a PFC F/R Z31/Z31 on one of my e92s which uses four smallish pads per caliper with 18 mm-thick pads. Note: I’ve 100% switched to PFC race pads. I couldn’t destroy a XP20 18 mm-thick pad in one day (CP5555 and Z31 front calipers use 18 mm-thick pads), no matter how hard I abuse them (braking sooner and longer which drives up pad and rotor temperatures). If you’re overheating the XP20, which has a max temperature of 2000 deg F, there’s something wrong with your brake setup and/or braking style. The XP20 should not soften and fade under proper braking conditions. XP12 has an upper temperature limit of 1850 deg F so you should not be fading the pad. I’ve had no fading or high wear rate issues of XP12 in my e46 M3 and e92 M3 with PFC or AP Racing brake fluid at VIR and Summit Point Main. What brake fluid are you using and how often do you bleed the abused fluid in the caliper and first 1-2’ of the brake lines? I’d recommend trying the PFC 11 compound. It has great pad wear rate, excellent rotor conditioning and rotor wear rate. It also has a progressive friction-temperature curve so it gives you great confidence because your max applied torque is at the end of a major braking zone. There’s no way you can burn thru a PFC 11 in one day, not two days, not three days,…, not eight days or longer IF your brake setup is properly setup and your driving style includes threshold braking, no pad dragging, and spending minimal time on the pads.

[kolosy]

Originally Posted by M3SQRD

Just because a caliper uses the same pad, it doesn’t make them equivalent. The Paragon caliper uses one of the pad profiles used in at least 40+ different calipers. The Paragon uses a design matching the AP Racing CP5555 caliper design from the 1990s, not the AP Racing Pro5000R CP9668 caliper or the Alcon CR6420 caliper (as well as used in several Alcon calipers, several AP Racing Calipers, Paragon calipers, etc.). My AP Racing brake kit for my e46 M3 from 2003 used the CP5555 design (18 mm-thick pad). Paragon uses the 18 mm-thick version of the CP3894D54 pad profile (see pics below for AP caliper and pad profile). The CP3894D54 pad, which is identical to Hawk HB109, PFC 7790, Cobalt AP19, Carbotech CTCP3894D54/CTCP7790, Ferodo 3014, Paragon PBP819SN, etc. The CP9668, which I use on my f82 with CP9449 on the rear, uses a 25 mm-thick pad and the Paragon PA035 uses only an 18 mm-thick pad - clearly not equivalent calipers.

I’ve used Carbotech XP10 (s2000), XP12 (e46 M3, e92 M3), XP18 (e46 M3, CT stopped production when family members had a falling out and the split started G-Loc Brakes which has identical pad compounds to CT), XP20 (e46 M3, e92M3). I have a PFC F/R Z31/Z31 on one of my e92s which uses four smallish pads per caliper with 18 mm-thick pads. Note: I’ve 100% switched to PFC race pads. I couldn’t destroy a XP20 18 mm-thick pad in one day (CP5555 and Z31 front calipers use 18 mm-thick pads), no matter how hard I abuse them (braking sooner and longer which drives up pad and rotor temperatures). If you’re overheating the XP20, which has a max temperature of 2000 deg F, there’s something wrong with your brake setup and/or braking style. The XP20 should not soften and fade under proper braking conditions. XP12 has an upper temperature limit of 1850 deg F so you should not be fading the pad. I’ve had no fading or high wear rate issues of XP12 in my e46 M3 and e92 M3 with PFC or AP Racing brake fluid at VIR and Summit Point Main. What brake fluid are you using and how often do you bleed the abused fluid in the caliper and first 1-2’ of the brake lines? I’d recommend trying the PFC 11 compound. It has great pad wear rate, excellent rotor conditioning and rotor wear rate. It also has a progressive friction-temperature curve so it gives you great confidence because your max applied torque is at the end of a major braking zone. There’s no way you can burn thru a PFC 11 in one day, not two days, not three days,…, not eight days or longer IF your brake setup is properly setup and your driving style includes threshold braking, no pad dragging, and spending minimal time on the pads.

you're right, it's the 9660 equivalent, not the 9668.

i didn't say i could go through a 20 in a day, i said i can go through a 12. 20s on the E90 last 3-4 days for me, with most of that time on a track that's known to be really tough on brakes.

[M3SQRD]

Originally Posted by kolosy

you're right, it's the 9660 equivalent, not the 9668.

i didn't say i could go through a 20 in a day, i said i can go through a 12. 20s on the E90 last 3-4 days for me, with most of that time on a track that's known to be really tough on brakes.

I’m not sure why you think the 9660 and PA035 are equivalent? There’s no comparison between these calipers except they use the same pad profile.

Sorry, got the xp20 mixed up with the 12. Finishing a xp12 in one day is still excessive pad wear. I’d get at least eight days out of a xp12 when running both VIR and SPM. XP20 lasts more than 10 days (switched to PFC before finishing off the xp20). My lap times at SPM 1:21-1:22 and VIR 2:06-2:07. The only pad I’ve gone through in one day is the Ferodo 2500.

Below is a pic of my ‘03.5 e46 M3 dedicated-track car with Moton 2-way remote with 900/1100 lbf/in, Diffsonline 4.10 LSD, AP Racing C5555/CP5144 Brake Kit with PFC 05 & 11, Carbono intake, Larini single midpipe with HFC, Jet Hot Headers, Lightweight flywheel with CSL SMG software, AA stage 2 ecu tune, APR GTC-300 Rear Wing, GC Race Anti-Sway Bars, BimmerWorld Custom Welded-In Roll Bar, Sparco Pro2000 buckets, etc…

E92 M3 #1 has MCS 2WR 600/900 lbf/in, Diffonline 3.62 LSD, PFC Z54/Z45 with PFC 11, Karbonis CF plenum, Dinan CF intake elbow, AA stage 2 with 8600 rpm redline, AA x-pipe and AA muffler, HRE R43 “Fall Line” & HRE R40 wheels, etc…one pic below

E92 M3 #2 has JRZ 500/800 lbf/in, PFC Z31/Z31 with PFC 11 & 01, Dinan CF intake elbow, BPM stage 2 with 8600 rpm redline, Akra x-pipe and Akra muffler, HRE R43 “Fall Line” wheels, etc…one pic with street wheels.

What tires do you run? What brake fluid? How many days before you use of a front rotor? Do you threshold brake? Do you trail brake?

[kolosy]

Originally Posted by M3SQRD

I’m not sure why you think the 9660 and PA035 are equivalent? There’s no comparison between these calipers except they use the same pad profile.

Sorry, got the xp20 mixed up with the 12. Finishing a xp12 in one day is still excessive pad wear. I’d get at least eight days out of a xp12 when running both VIR and SPM. XP20 lasts more than 10 days (switched to PFC before finishing off the xp20). My lap times at SPM 2:21-1:22 and VIR 2:06-2:07. The only pad I’ve gone through in one day is the Ferodo 2500.

Below is a pic of my ‘03.5 e46 M3 dedicated-track car with Moton 2-way remote with 900/1100 lbf/in, Diffsonline 4.10 LSD, AP Racing C5555/CP5144 Brake Kit with PFC 05 & 11, Carbono intake, Larini single midpipe with HFC, Jet Hot Headers, Lightweight flywheel with CSL SMG software, AA stage 2 ecu tune, APR GTC-300 Rear Wing, GC Race Anti-Sway Bars, BimmerWorld Custom Welded-In Roll Bar, Sparco Pro2000 buckets, etc…

E92 M3 #1 has MCS 2WR 600/900 lbf/in, Diffonline 3.62 LSD, PFC Z54/Z45 with PFC 11, Karbonis CF plenum, Dinan CF intake elbow, AA stage 2 with 8600 rpm redline, AA x-pipe and AA muffler, HRE R43 “Fall Line” & HRE R40 wheels, etc…one pic below

E92 M3 #2 has JRZ 500/800 lbf/in, PFC Z31/Z31 with PFC 11 & 01, Dinan CF intake elbow, BPM stage 2 with 8600 rpm redline, Akra x-pipe and Akra muffler, HRE R43 “Fall Line” wheels, etc…one pic with street wheels.

What tires do you run? What brake fluid? How many days before you use of a front rotor? Do you threshold brake? Do you trail brake?

nice stable. i'm not discounting the possibility of overbraking, though i do threshhold and trail brake. judging by your laptimes, it's a longer track than my local. 1:24 is the minimum for advanced group at Blackhawk Farms, I'm running 1:18, hitting about 129 on the front straight. Track record for a street car is 1:14. I'm making a crude assumption that my shorter track will be harder on brakes overall given the shorter cooldown time. Also, given how much lighter a track-prepped E46 is than an E90 or a G82, that doesn't seem like a relevant comparison.

The E90 is on Kumho V730, SRF fluid. 3DM dedicated track suspension, monoballs upfront, full set of ground control arms in the rear.

[former 240 s14]

Originally Posted by tdott

Have you run DTC70 in comparison?

I have only run DTC70 front only on stock brakes, currently on f8x brakes and ran Ferodo 1.11 and DTC70. 1.11 were quieter, the dtc70s squeal a lot, I felt like the 1.11 had better modulation and better feel but trailed off at the end of the braking zone, DTC70s were more consistent in the braking zone but with a bit less feel.

Currently sticking with the Hawks because FCP, but im sure there are better options out there.

I do not have any personal experience with DTC-70's and can't think of anyone who has. Maybe it's because my experience is in Endurance.

I also found out from my contact at Bimmerworld PFC no longer makes PFC 11 compounds for AP 9668 and 9449 kits. Their best soltuion was to do a mix compound between front rear (331 and 13.) I am not a fan of that personally as I do not have the technical expertise to correctly pick (or the budget to mix and match without testing.)

Still looking for for a pad other than the DS3.12 as I am not fan of the strong initial bite per my driving style.

[M3SQRD]

Originally Posted by kolosy

nice stable. i'm not discounting the possibility of overbraking, though i do threshhold and trail brake. judging by your laptimes, it's a longer track than my local. 1:24 is the minimum for advanced group at Blackhawk Farms, I'm running 1:18, hitting about 129 on the front straight. Track record for a street car is 1:14. I'm making a crude assumption that my shorter track will be harder on brakes overall given the shorter cooldown time. Also, given how much lighter a track-prepped E46 is than an E90 or a G82, that doesn't seem like a relevant comparison.

The E90 is on Kumho V730, SRF fluid. 3DM dedicated track suspension, monoballs upfront, full set of ground control arms in the rear.

Oops… I had SPM listed incorrectly as 2:21-1:22 when it should’ve been 1:21-1:22. Fixed. Thanks!

Only one high speed braking zone doesn’t necessarily mean it’s harder on the brakes. SPM has four significant brake zones, one is going downhill as you brake with a delta of 70+ mph so your weight is working against you making it more demanding, a front straight with speeds of 140+ mph and a corner with a 40+mph braking delta on a 2.0 mile track. VIR has two ~150 mph braking zones and four moderate-high delta braking events on the Full 3.29 mile course.

It is relevant because I’m hitting higher speeds, therefore, higher kinetic energy being converted to brake rotor thermal energy (heat) and only the rear and trunk interior have been removed plus a welded-in roll bar was added. There’s about a 120 lbm net reduction. Also, I’m at full weight in my e92 M3s on both tracks with similar lap times (about 1 sec delta) and the same brake compounds in the Z31/Z31 calipers. I see far less brake wear on the same pad compounds and same pad thicknesses (except PFC Z54/Z45 but that’s only used PFC pad compounds with very low pad wear and long rotor life that lasts a full track season). Something is causing your accelerated pad wear. Have you measured rotor and caliper temperatures? Your comment about xp20 fading after a couple of laps means you’re exceeding 2000 deg F on the pad! SRF is good but I prefer PFC and AP brake fluid. BMW switched to low-viscosity brake fluid. Brake fluid like PFC and AP have lower viscosity at high temperatures which more closely matches the viscosity of low-viscosity brake fluid. This means if the viscosity at track temperature is different from the viscosity of low-viscosity brake fluid, the ABS, MDM (if using) and DSC (if using) may not perform properly. SRF has different viscosity properties.

[BoilerUP]

Longer courses can also mean longer, higher speed straights...which means more airflow for cooling things down.

[kolosy]

Originally Posted by M3SQRD

Oops… I had SPM listed incorrectly as 2:21-1:22 when it should’ve been 1:21-1:22. Fixed. Thanks!

Only one high speed braking zone doesn’t necessarily mean it’s harder on the brakes. SPM has four significant brake zones, one is going downhill as you brake with a delta of 70+ mph so your weight is working against you making it more demanding, a front straight with speeds of 140+ mph and a corner with a 40+mph braking delta on a 2.0 mile track. VIR has two ~150 mph braking zones and four moderate-high delta braking events on the Full 3.29 mile course.

It is relevant because I’m hitting higher speeds, therefore, higher kinetic energy being converted to brake rotor thermal energy (heat) and only the rear and trunk interior have been removed plus a welded-in roll bar was added. There’s about a 120 lbm net reduction. Also, I’m at full weight in my e92 M3s on both tracks with similar lap times (about 1 sec delta) and the same brake compounds in the Z31/Z31 calipers. I see far less brake wear on the same pad compounds and same pad thicknesses (except PFC Z54/Z45 but that’s only used PFC pad compounds with very low pad wear and long rotor life that lasts a full track season). Something is causing your accelerated pad wear. Have you measured rotor and caliper temperatures? Your comment about xp20 fading after a couple of laps means you’re exceeding 2000 deg F on the pad! SRF is good but I prefer PFC and AP brake fluid. BMW switched to low-viscosity brake fluid. Brake fluid like PFC and AP have lower viscosity at high temperatures which more closely matches the viscosity of low-viscosity brake fluid. This means if the viscosity at track temperature is different from the viscosity of low-viscosity brake fluid, the ABS, MDM (if using) and DSC (if using) may not perform properly. SRF has different viscosity properties.

BFR has two back to back high speed braking zones. again, I don't want to make it sound like my driving style doesn't contribute to the high wear rate, I'm sure it does. But that track *does* have a rep for being tough on brakes.

I went with Motul 660 on the G82 because I didn't like the pedal feel of SRF (which is funny because the G82 is brake by wire so it wouldn't impact pedal feel there at all, but whatever)

Originally Posted by BoilerUP

Longer courses can also mean longer, higher speed straights...which means more airflow for cooling things down.

correct. more airflow, and more time. that's why road america, despite being fast with 3 separate 140+ -> 40-50 brake zones isn't as hard on brakes because there's much more time and airflow to cool them down.

[M3SQRD]

Originally Posted by former 240 s14

I do not have any personal experience with DTC-70's and can't think of anyone who has. Maybe it's because my experience is in Endurance.

I also found out from my contact at Bimmerworld PFC no longer makes PFC 11 compounds for AP 9668 and 9449 kits. Their best soltuion was to do a mix compound between front rear (331 and 13.) I am not a fan of that personally as I do not have the technical expertise to correctly pick (or the budget to mix and match without testing.)

Still looking for for a pad other than the DS3.12 as I am not fan of the strong initial bite per my driving style.

What is PFC 11 being replaced with? There’s no other PFC compound that’s close to 11. 11 was developed from 01 and 05. 13 was also derived from the 01 and 07 but with considerably more torque and temperature resistance (highest CoF in the mid temperature range) but it isn’t progressive like the 11. 01 is still a good pad given its age. I’d recommend trying 13 front and 05 or 07 (if you can find it) rear. 331 front and 15 rear is better than front 331 and rear 13 unless you want more rear brake bias. Note: the rear 7768 can be made from a 7767 - 7768 has a larger inner radius so all you need to convert a 7767 is to increase its inner radius. 7767 is used by Radicals so other compounds might be available than the 7768.

[M3SQRD]

Originally Posted by kolosy

BFR has two back to back high speed braking zones. again, I don't want to make it sound like my driving style doesn't contribute to the high wear rate, I'm sure it does. But that track *does* have a rep for being tough on brakes.

I went with Motul 660 on the G82 because I didn't like the pedal feel of SRF (which is funny because the G82 is brake by wire so it wouldn't impact pedal feel there at all, but whatever)

I wasn’t saying your braking is easy. I was just pointing out how a 2.0 mile track and a 3.29 mile track can both be demanding on brakes. However, I still believe your pad wear is extreme. I’d recommend trying a set of PFC pads front & rear and see if you’re still getting extreme wear. I’d also recommend measuring rotor and caliper temperatures to help with understanding what’s causing the extreme wear.

I’m with you on brake pedal feel with SRF. For the Motul 660, after rack track event, I’d recommend lightly bleed each caliper and the first 1-2’ of brake line to remove the fluid that is being subjected to the highest temperatures and severe environment. This keeps the brake fluid fresh and ready for abuse!

Try to threshold brake in all corners without over slowing the car. Do all the braking in a straight line for this test. Basically, minimize potential variables. So far though it sounds like the main variable may be braking system temperatures. Measuring rotor and caliper temperatures will provide very useful data. I’d say the current goal is to increase pad life by at least 3x from your current xp12 and xp20 pad lives.

[former 240 s14]

Originally Posted by M3SQRD

What is PFC 11 being replaced with? There’s no other PFC compound that’s close to 11. 11 was developed from 01 and 05. 13 was also derived from the 01 and 07 but with considerably more torque and temperature resistance (highest CoF in the mid temperature range) but it isn’t progressive like the 11. 01 is still a good pad given its age. I’d recommend trying 13 front and 05 or 07 (if you can find it) rear. 331 front and 15 rear is better than front 331 and rear 13 unless you want more rear brake bias. Note: the rear 7768 can be made from a 7767 - 7768 has a larger inner radius so all you need to convert a 7767 is to increase its inner radius. 7767 is used by Radicals so other compounds might be available than the 7768.

No idea as of today. They (bimmerworld) didn't have any information on that and PFC has not responded to my inquiry yet. I will keep on them as the 11 compound sounded perfect for my driving style.

Thanks for the feedback and this has been a great convo so far, will keep this going!