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      06-08-2010, 02:54 AM   #988
DLSJ5
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Drives: 2016 F82 M4 ZCP
Join Date: Dec 2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rom3n View Post
I’m sorry when did I open a discussion on different cars in different countries and how the performance between them proved anything ? I made a comparison of three cars that ran each other on the same day in the same location. The 335 in this video runs a 60-130 in 9 sec without meth. This is the same as some supercharged E9X M3's so I would say it's a pretty fast car.
You did when you posted up about those cars, what country is irrelevant, the fact that you believe it makes a huge difference, doesn't carry much weight IMHO. What difference does it make where the car is or the location? When you are comparing two or more cars in the same place, it doesn't. I don't get your line of reasoning here, I made a comparison of the same three cars in the same location as well, what exactly did I say that ticked you off? Are we not allowed to discuss this? Regardless I concured with you Per's car pulled nicely on Tom's 335I which is no sloutch, it is a fast car, but not 594whp fast. M5's run 10-11 second 60-130's, but with the outstanding fuel in europe, I don't doubt that Tom's car ran some impressive 60-130's, the guy can paddle as well. FYI the fastest 60-130 for an M5 is 8.58, that's a 500+whp stroker, that car is running very close to a C6 Z06.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rom3n View Post
Really ? so exactly what are the limits of the E60 M5 in NA form with bolt ons and software ?
Yes really, I would think at 568CHP that car is at it's limit. Strokers are rated around 600BHP, with bolt ons as well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rom3n View Post
Like I said before with close to 10 psi and meth you should be making the power and performance you are and you should definitely be running meth at all times.
That's the point, I have no doubt my dyno matches how the car performs, Per's, according to him, does not, don't care at what psi, I would also argue any stock S65 making near 600whp, should probably refrain from running pump fuel, even if it's the magical euro 94 octane.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rom3n View Post
Your current dynos show max boost at 9.8-9.9 psi. This customers car runs max boost at 7.5 psi how is that a 1.5 psi difference? That is a 2.3 psi difference and you run meth.
I informed you that I have another dyno, 579whp at 9psi, that is 1.5psi difference, I won't post it on this thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rom3n View Post
Larry ran 8 psi at Mfest on a 50/50 mix of race and 91 for fun. He never ran a 60-130 or dyno with that setup.
Right, I just asked if he dynoed it, I would think you would to make sure it's running safely and dyno the car before adding a smaller pulley, and since we are counting every last psi, you stated "8.5" psi.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rom3n View Post
Larry's car on 91 octane and 5.5 psi made slightly over 500 whp with catless exhaust. He also ran a low 8 sec 60-130 with this setup. I would say his Vbox data confirms his car is making rated power.
I would concur, it is interesting though with less boost and a stock motor that his 60-130 is the same as PG's ESS Stroker. I was specifically talking about Per's dyno vs. performance, not Larry's. I believe your car and Larry's dyno's match how the cars perform.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rom3n View Post
Actually it has a lot to do with the discussion. We have videos and dynos from all over the world. If you like I can post them up for you to view. These independent videos and dyno's have shown that our kits always make rated power and perform extremely well in the real world. This is something that you seem to deny or are attempting to refute with your continued comparisons and comments.
I've seen all of them. They are few and far between though, and most are the Red car in Russia, his moves no doubt. Your kits perform well, never said they didn't, the discussion was about a specific car and certain dyno's. I concur your kits do make the "rated" power on your website, but at times you post dyno's that are not OTS kits, I believe AJ said that your 560whp setups, are not available to everyone, nor are they supported by you at that power level, I think Per's #'s certainly apply.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rom3n View Post
Then have the customers who have these 4 cars post up all of their data. As of now there is only one car that has made your numbers and it's your car.
They did, you just didn't see it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rom3n View Post
You said you removed the filter off your kit and the car made 10-11 psi and 600 whp and then went into a limp mode. I would say this qualifies as making a performance difference. This is not complicated to figure out. If you made 10-11 psi and 600 whp without a filter on your intake you were running a 10-11 psi pulley and your filter was restricting the boost and power. Going out on the road and running a 60-130 to test this is not science it’s a nice way of saying there was a problem but it did not matter in the performance of the car. If this was the case and it did not effect performance on the road why did you need to re-design it? Boost is mechanical; it is determined by the size of the pulley it will only go down if you have a boost leak or restriction of air coming into the blower. You called this design "new intake" this would usually be understood as you changed it from its original design. So far the only change I have seen is you cut the carbon fiber cover off that used to sit over the top of the filter. What exactly did you change to gain the power you did ?
Roman, it made little to no real world performance difference and I explained why, forget the dyno #'s. The Vbox #'s, were very similiar with the old and new intake, that is what is relevant. Why are you so concerned with the intake? The old intake was a box, with a panel filter, the new one is a cone intake of the back of the charger, it's in pictures, did you not see them at Bimmerfest? Roman an intake with a filter on it will restrict the incoming air a bit, if your kit defies physics, as it seems to on the ESS dyno as well, fair enough.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rom3n View Post
Drew you are wrong again, you need to open your mind to more than what is under your hood. We have run our cars without the filter during R&D to ensure the filter we were running did not restrict air flow and the car makes the same power with the same boost. We tested 4 different filters before we found the right size to use in our kit. We do not have our customers testing our intake design to determine what works properly.
So none of the filters restricted the air? You say you tested 4, none of them changed the boost level, so let me understand this, a filter causes no restriction through an intake that does a 180 degree turn through a filter, vs nothing? Interesting.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rom3n View Post
I never said you run 10-11 psi on the streets I said you had a 10-11 psi pulley on your car and you had no clue as the intake was restricting boost back to 9.5 psi. I have no doubt your dyno numbers are real, with 9.5-10 psi of boost and meth they should be.
I do not have a 10-11 psi pulley on my car, right now I have the 9 - 9.5psi pulley, do you know of one that utilizes the stock Crank Pulley size that can pull off 10-11psi and with a filter on? That's a very small SC'r pulley, mine is not that small, lol.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rom3n View Post
Should make and do make are two very different things. The only way you would know if other cars would make the same power anywhere in the world would be to actually have kits in other parts of the world. The only way you could assure me or anyone else is to actually have all the independent data from these cars posted up by the customers, so please do.
Agreed, myself and others have, independent is the key word here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rom3n View Post
If you understood how the MSS60 works you would know it's adaptation based and it self corrects based on conditions, this includes intake air temps and fuel quality. When the car is first flashed with a new software file or adaptations have been reset the car will default to a slightly lower than target timing map. Over time if fuel and air temp allow it will slowly advance it's timing until it reaches target. If conditions do not allow the opposite occurs. This adaptation process can take some time and power output can change for the better or worse. Because we have not re-tested this car we do not know if it is making the same power, more or less. The only exception is if the tuner programmed a really high timing target in an attempt to force the car to run high timing under any conditions. In this case the car will almost always pull timing as it adapts making less power. I would expect someone with your knowledge of these cars to understand this process and to also understand that power output is directly related to timing.
Here comes "how the ECU works" lecture again, let's cut to the chase, instead of hiding behind a bunch of tuner jargon, because none of that matters, what matters are the #'s you posted/advertised vs. what the car really makes in the real world, in this case, unless you find something wrong at your inspection, it appears they don't.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rom3n View Post
Where in this thread did anyone comment on the performance info of your car VS a M5 or a 335 that forced you to chime in and defend how your car did against these two cars ? you jumped into this thread in an attempt to compare the performance of your car to one of our customers.
Does it matter? FYI, I didn't defend how my car performed, lol, I simply stated where a bolt on M5 and fully modded 335I stand against a bolt on M3, not just my car. You claimed that car was making 500whp, I disagreed. I wasn't even referring to my FI setup and since when is comparing the performance of those cars a sin?
__________________
16 F82 M4 DCT - ZCP - JB4 - 556WHP / 570WTQ
08 E92 M3 DCT - Bolt Ons - 60-130MPH 10.71s - 11.88 @ 118MPH - 377WHP
ESS VT2-625 SC 60-130MPH 6.80s - 11.30 @ 129.3 MPH 586WHP / 379WTQ
ESS VT3-750 - 60-130MPH 6.14s - 10.81 @ 135.13 MPH 690WHP/463WTQ
Shift-S3ctor E92 M3 - 1/2 Mile Trap Speed WR - 174.13 MPH