BMW M3 Forum (E90 E92) - View Single Post

yoslow · 09-15-2019, 08:32 PM

Hi M3Post,

Recently, I had some time off of work and decided to dig into the infamous S65 Rod Bearing Curse. From my time spent on the forum (more than I'd like to admit), it seems members are generally split in two camps - members who don't believe we have an issue, or members that believe we have an issue.

The general hypothesis behind members believing we don't have an issue is that M3 owners that don't have any issues will generally not post about Rod Bearings, while owners with issues generally will; the total amount of posts regarding rod bearings are dwarfed by the total amount of produced M3's.

I've browsed the rod bearing condition compilation post and have not found any significance in terms of mileage vs rod bearing wear, totally dependent on what I assume to be warm up procedure, temperature of environemnt, and driving habbits. However, what I've found is that most supercharged cars generally have more wear vs stock engines.

While my M3 won't be supercharged, I decided to pull the trigger on the Rod Bearing job because I in tend to keep my M3 for many years to come. I've always had a crunsh on the M3, and anything it needs it'll get. (Sounds like a better love story than twilight right? haha) While there was a chance that my Rod Bearings would of been totally fine, and my engine could of lasted another 100k+, I didn't want to roll the dice on a new engine. Additionally, I wanted to replace my motor mounts in the process, felt my 6MT transmission was crunching/clunking a little bit between gears.

Bearing Selection Process:
I was faced with 2 choices on bearing selection:
1. BE Bearings + ARP Bolts
2. VAC Coated Bearings

Both of these options were highly recommended and do offer added clearances vs factory, but I felt the BE bearings were superior in all regards. Additionally, with the VAC option, I didn't want to run a thinner oil as a stop-gap measure

Full read in the link below if anyone's interested in further nerding over clearances of VAC vs BE bearings, TLDR from the analysis:

"The new baseline for 702/703 bearings show the clearance is about the same as the original 088/089 BMW bearings. Folks who have been banking on this 0.00020 inch increase for their arguments in the bearing threads will need to adjust to this new reality.

The VAC-Clevite bearings show an extra 0.00050 inch clearance over stock. The new bearings are a Clevite Tri-Metal construction using lead-copper composition. The lead-copper composition is highly advised for Blackstone oil tracking because it allows to track lead as an indirect indication of bearing wear and life.

The new VAC-Clevite bearings are a good option for factory clearances. I would prefer these over OEM bearings. But they don't increase the clearance to the point the S65/S85 needs to be. These bearings are good, but they're not good enough. A new bearing, BE-Bearings are needed to fix the problem."

http://bebearings.com/PreviousAttempts.html

The only drawback with BE bearings are that they're pretty limited in supply due to high demand. If these weren't in stock, I would of probably gone with VAC bearings (Still better than stock), but I was lucky that Abdul@mpowermotorsports was able to go above and beyond and have these shipped out to me in record time. Would highly recommend purchasing BE bearings from him, his work ethic, and care for customer is unparalleled.

Motor Mounts + More parts!!:
In addition to BE Bearings, I decided to get my hand on a set of Vibra Technic motor mounts - generally, stock motor mounts tend to collapse around 30-40K (YMMV). Self-diagnosis is if you have any engine movement when you're stationary and applying throttle, your mounts are probably shot or on their way out. (Note I'm not a mechanic, just my experience)

In addition to bearings and engine mounts, you'll also need an oil pan gasket for this job, and a whole bunch of miscellaneous parts. See below for my total part list, I wanted to make sure I had everything for the job; note that the below part list is exhaustive and you might not need everything if your bolts are in good condition:

Oil Section:
11137841085 - Genuine BMW Oil Pan Gasket
07129905537 - Genuine BMW Engine Oil Pan Bolt with Washer, 6 X 30 mm (Quantity 16)
07129905599 - Genuine BMW Engine Oil Pan Bolt with Washer, 6 X 50 mm (Quantity 12)
07129905600 - Genuine BMW Engine Oil Pan Bolt with Washer, 6 X 75 mm (Quantity 2)
11417839832 – Genuine BMW 25X2 Oil Pump O-Ring
11417839833 – Genuine BMW 19X2 Oil Pump O-Ring
12611744292 - Genuine BMW Oil Level Sensor O-Ring
11427837997 - Oil Filter Kit
10W-60 Synthetic (Quantity 10)

Power Steering Section:
07119906464 - Power Steering Line to Steering Rack Washer, 14 X 18 (Quantity 2)
83290429576 - Hydraulic System Fluid (CHF 11S), for Power Steering and Hydraulic System

Subframe Bolts:
33326768354 - Bolt for reinforcement plate (Quantity 9)
31106769907 - Subframe bolt (Quantity 2)
31106850312 - Subframe bolt (Quantity 2)
31106767497 - Subframe bolt (Quantity 2)

Getting the Job Done:
Called around a bunch of shops to get a quote on the job, after light browsing on the forums and RMP Motors was highly recommended.

Distinct from recommendations on the forums, where I eventually ended up was at M-Tech Auto where I met William - a fellow E92 M3 owner. I had the opportunity to chat with William about our mutual passion and love for the V8 M3's, and he even showed me his insane Dakar Yellow M3 (crazy build with an OEM M3 GTS Steering Wheel).

What ultimately lead me to my decision was chatting with the tech at the shop - quizzing him on torque specs for the job, in combination with William's mutual passion for E92 M3's. Additional cherry on top was seeing another M3 in for a rod-bearing service (super clean mineral white M3 with stop-tech rotors, and a mode-carbon diffuser).

Review of the job:
Got my car back overnight, dropped the car off in the morning and picked it up the following afternoon.

Overall the car feels significantly tighter with brand new vibra-technic motor mounts; note that I'm comparing my experience vs dead motor mounts. At higher speeds, the car seems to have a sense of confidence that wasn't present before - I'm aware that this might of been placebo, but the car genuinely feels a ton better even days after the job.

On idle, the car is quieter with less chatter, everything seems to be in tip-top performance, oil temperatures remain around the same level vs before.

Without further a due, below are the money shots (Rod Bearing conditions), along with cool pics from the job:

09-15-2019, 08:32 PM	#1
yoslow Private First Class 56 Rep 110 Posts Drives: SSII E92 M3 Join Date: Jun 2019 Location: Toronto iTrader: (0)	yoslow's Rod Bearing + VT Mounts Review Hi M3Post, Recently, I had some time off of work and decided to dig into the infamous S65 Rod Bearing Curse. From my time spent on the forum (more than I'd like to admit), it seems members are generally split in two camps - members who don't believe we have an issue, or members that believe we have an issue. The general hypothesis behind members believing we don't have an issue is that M3 owners that don't have any issues will generally not post about Rod Bearings, while owners with issues generally will; the total amount of posts regarding rod bearings are dwarfed by the total amount of produced M3's. I've browsed the rod bearing condition compilation post and have not found any significance in terms of mileage vs rod bearing wear, totally dependent on what I assume to be warm up procedure, temperature of environemnt, and driving habbits. However, what I've found is that most supercharged cars generally have more wear vs stock engines. While my M3 won't be supercharged, I decided to pull the trigger on the Rod Bearing job because I in tend to keep my M3 for many years to come. I've always had a crunsh on the M3, and anything it needs it'll get. (Sounds like a better love story than twilight right? haha) While there was a chance that my Rod Bearings would of been totally fine, and my engine could of lasted another 100k+, I didn't want to roll the dice on a new engine. Additionally, I wanted to replace my motor mounts in the process, felt my 6MT transmission was crunching/clunking a little bit between gears. Bearing Selection Process: I was faced with 2 choices on bearing selection: 1. BE Bearings + ARP Bolts 2. VAC Coated Bearings Both of these options were highly recommended and do offer added clearances vs factory, but I felt the BE bearings were superior in all regards. Additionally, with the VAC option, I didn't want to run a thinner oil as a stop-gap measure Full read in the link below if anyone's interested in further nerding over clearances of VAC vs BE bearings, TLDR from the analysis: "The new baseline for 702/703 bearings show the clearance is about the same as the original 088/089 BMW bearings. Folks who have been banking on this 0.00020 inch increase for their arguments in the bearing threads will need to adjust to this new reality. The VAC-Clevite bearings show an extra 0.00050 inch clearance over stock. The new bearings are a Clevite Tri-Metal construction using lead-copper composition. The lead-copper composition is highly advised for Blackstone oil tracking because it allows to track lead as an indirect indication of bearing wear and life. The new VAC-Clevite bearings are a good option for factory clearances. I would prefer these over OEM bearings. But they don't increase the clearance to the point the S65/S85 needs to be. These bearings are good, but they're not good enough. A new bearing, BE-Bearings are needed to fix the problem." http://bebearings.com/PreviousAttempts.html The only drawback with BE bearings are that they're pretty limited in supply due to high demand. If these weren't in stock, I would of probably gone with VAC bearings (Still better than stock), but I was lucky that Abdul@mpowermotorsports was able to go above and beyond and have these shipped out to me in record time. Would highly recommend purchasing BE bearings from him, his work ethic, and care for customer is unparalleled. Motor Mounts + More parts!!: In addition to BE Bearings, I decided to get my hand on a set of Vibra Technic motor mounts - generally, stock motor mounts tend to collapse around 30-40K (YMMV). Self-diagnosis is if you have any engine movement when you're stationary and applying throttle, your mounts are probably shot or on their way out. (Note I'm not a mechanic, just my experience) In addition to bearings and engine mounts, you'll also need an oil pan gasket for this job, and a whole bunch of miscellaneous parts. See below for my total part list, I wanted to make sure I had everything for the job; note that the below part list is exhaustive and you might not need everything if your bolts are in good condition: Oil Section: 11137841085 - Genuine BMW Oil Pan Gasket 07129905537 - Genuine BMW Engine Oil Pan Bolt with Washer, 6 X 30 mm (Quantity 16) 07129905599 - Genuine BMW Engine Oil Pan Bolt with Washer, 6 X 50 mm (Quantity 12) 07129905600 - Genuine BMW Engine Oil Pan Bolt with Washer, 6 X 75 mm (Quantity 2) 11417839832 – Genuine BMW 25X2 Oil Pump O-Ring 11417839833 – Genuine BMW 19X2 Oil Pump O-Ring 12611744292 - Genuine BMW Oil Level Sensor O-Ring 11427837997 - Oil Filter Kit 10W-60 Synthetic (Quantity 10) Power Steering Section: 07119906464 - Power Steering Line to Steering Rack Washer, 14 X 18 (Quantity 2) 83290429576 - Hydraulic System Fluid (CHF 11S), for Power Steering and Hydraulic System Subframe Bolts: 33326768354 - Bolt for reinforcement plate (Quantity 9) 31106769907 - Subframe bolt (Quantity 2) 31106850312 - Subframe bolt (Quantity 2) 31106767497 - Subframe bolt (Quantity 2) Getting the Job Done: Called around a bunch of shops to get a quote on the job, after light browsing on the forums and RMP Motors was highly recommended. Distinct from recommendations on the forums, where I eventually ended up was at M-Tech Auto where I met William - a fellow E92 M3 owner. I had the opportunity to chat with William about our mutual passion and love for the V8 M3's, and he even showed me his insane Dakar Yellow M3 (crazy build with an OEM M3 GTS Steering Wheel). What ultimately lead me to my decision was chatting with the tech at the shop - quizzing him on torque specs for the job, in combination with William's mutual passion for E92 M3's. Additional cherry on top was seeing another M3 in for a rod-bearing service (super clean mineral white M3 with stop-tech rotors, and a mode-carbon diffuser). Review of the job: Got my car back overnight, dropped the car off in the morning and picked it up the following afternoon. Overall the car feels significantly tighter with brand new vibra-technic motor mounts; note that I'm comparing my experience vs dead motor mounts. At higher speeds, the car seems to have a sense of confidence that wasn't present before - I'm aware that this might of been placebo, but the car genuinely feels a ton better even days after the job. On idle, the car is quieter with less chatter, everything seems to be in tip-top performance, oil temperatures remain around the same level vs before. Without further a due, below are the money shots (Rod Bearing conditions), along with cool pics from the job:
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