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      01-14-2020, 07:34 PM   #49
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Drives: e36m3 euro —>e92m3
Join Date: Jun 2019
Location: Canada

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Originally Posted by EricSMG View Post
Good post.

Broad <> flexible if the absolute value is too low. It simply means broad here.

The S65 actually has a much broader torque curve than the S65. It makes proportionately more of its peak tq for a wider rpm range. It just doesn't quite make enough to be "exciting" in the real world on a warm day.

I could care less about low end (<3k). Both motors suck in that regard anyway. The S55 is a totally out of boost/very laggy and feels exactly like an S54 in the real world below 3k.

But let me ask you - why is it that asking for a little more real-world punch automatically means I want turbo torque? I never wanted any more punch in all of my E46Ms and they are WAY WAY slower than the F80. My frustration with the E9XM happened before I ever even test drove an F80... I went straight from an E46M to an E9XM. I'm simply illustrating the flaw in your generalization(s) that modern turbo power is the reason for wanting more punch from the S65 - not the case at all.
Fair points. I don’t think we’re actually far off the same understanding. in my experience (having driven many e46Ms and owned a euro spec e36) is that the s65 doesn’t actually feel “soft” in the midrange, and to your point, is actually immensely flexible, offering great torque throughout having regard to the displacement and use ability of the engine (that torque being limited to under 300 foot pounds after all ). Indeed, I’m not sure I can point to a 4.0 litre of any car that offers the mid range of the m3 while also possessing its flexibility and top end, short of exotics like the v8 Ferraris and larger displacement Porsche 6s. Frankly, even Porsche’s latest GT4s offer broadly similar numbers across the rev range despite being 10+ years newer.

I suppose I’m sensitive to this as I’m tired of reading posts which pass off the torque of the s65 as that of a Honda S2000, which is ridiculous. The only perspective that could lead to such a conclusion is comparing this to an engine double the size, or blown using turbos with absurd and disproportionate mid ranges (but with all the comprises and issues a turbo brings - partly subjective). There’s a reason after all that Ferrari artificially depresses the mid range torque output of the 488 engine.

Definitely not unresonable to ask for slightly more mid range power as you are, but expectations should be aligned to its displacement and the inherent breathing/cam compromises required to let it rev over 8000rpm.