[KevinGS]

Originally Posted by jaehshim

- Motor. This discussion will go on and on for ages. But the fact is you can't compare a NA to turbo engine.
Better yet, You can't compare a race car derived, 8400rpm high rev NA motor with ITB vs. an inline-6 motor using 2 Mitsubishi turbo (TF035) making 430ish/400ftlb.
Meticulously tuned turbo car? well, a 335i with $480~630 ecu tune turns 430hp/430ftlb in my garage.
The S65 was the climax of BMW M engineering NA motor, period

- Power. driven WOT both cars on a same road, and like you mentioned, in order for us to really SEE the difference between the two in terms of actual SPEED, we need a longer track, maybe a race track. GTR or a highly tuned s14 240SX, yes it shows a big difference than my E90 even on a short road course.
F80? not much different.

- Suspension, like you mentioned, we can't tell much in daily basis. I did drive on mountain roads, however, both stock wheels + tires. In various settings, they drive well at the identical level

- Brakes. Thought they did well this time with the 4 piston front / 2 piston rear brakes for non-ceramic option. Damn, these brakes fade as bad as E9X in aggressive driving. Conclusion: it isn't "better" than E9X. Both cars, change pads for track use anyways

- daily driving, what surprised me and my friend most is that F80 is very stiff (I heard about the whole discussion of competition package being better ride etc etc)on a public road with bumps and pot holes here and there. It is so stiff that even in a month or two of ownership, that plastic and leather creaking sound bother the sxxx out of us. Ride back to back (both stock), anyone can tell that it is more uncomfortable to be in the F80. In fact, My car has eibach springs and it rides better on public road.

- Space. Dimensionally F80 has bigger back space. In real life, Not really. It has about an inch or two more leg space, but obviously no space in the center like the E90.
The BMW, since E36 sedans, has a very similar back seat design, in that the side of each seat (where the seatbelt is) is rather thick and gives you a good "huggging" feel when there's 2 ppl sitting in the back. Because they're cushioned rather thick, the space you "feel" when you sit in the back is pretty much the same as E90's. And yea all civilized, better space for back seat occupants, but NO center armrest and NO CUP HOLDERS??? wtf bmw...what were you thinking??? weight saving my ass... when you have steering wheel heaters, all around camera and etc...

- MPG. In 70~80% traffic, 20~30% highway, My car gets 17.6mpg. F80 around ~ 19.2 mpg. drastically better? No.

- Sound. Not going to argue about the exhaust tone, we all know which ones better.
I'm talking about the exhaust tone in the cabin (again, we are using these cars daily and that's important). The goddamn fake bass tone feeding through the speakers bother passengers so much especially in the back seat. It just "hums" and drones so much on highway that friends did not want to be in the back seats after about 2 hrs on the highway. For this, I know some F80 owners cancel fake exhaust sound system. My car with OEM exhaust mod drone less than the F80 stock.

-Interesting you mentioned B9 S4. Didn't get a chance to drive that one but did a C43 as all arounder. And in daily basis, there's not a single difference in feel between C43 and F80 M3. Same good turbo torque, that's it pretty much. Oh, Mercedes has better interior design but has worse material, the "chrome" look plastic and worse stupid nav screen + nav system.

Style. Lastly, you tell me which one looks more flashy in stock form. I ask because I'm in your age category as well, and I like a more "subtle" car better than all-out flashy car.
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My final conclusion after a back to back comparo + still frequently in F80 M3 is that, other than the
- LED headlights
- 100ft lb torque
- better I drive screen
It is hard to say that the F80 is "better" than the E90. It's a great car, but having owned E90 and experiencing F80, can't say it's better. No wonder a good number of people are coming back, at least for a more memorable, special character engine.

Having owned an F82 for 8 months (and tracked it 5 times), and then sold it and moved to an E93, I come to the same conclusion as you, but come to it with differences.

Motor - Stock F8X is simply wayyyy faster than an E9X. Sure, with mods, all comparisons become mod-specific. But from the factory, the F8X motor is deliciously fast, and especially so on the track.

I like BMW's NA V8 more too (and even like it more when it's supercharged, because even that's more linear than the output of the F8X's turbos). But in regards to output from the factory and raw speed, F8X is damn quick, almost too much so in certain situations.

Power - Driven on the same roads, the F8X is just super quick once the turbos spool up, which only take about a second. Then it's just gone. Stock, it's just faster. If you didn't feel the definitive difference, then you chose to overlook how fast the outside world started to move past you in the F8X. It's a pretty fast car, especially past 20 mph.

Suspension - F8X simply ride harsher, which pays off on the track. The F8X platform is a monster on a track, and more challenging to drive fast. You can't simply turn off all the nannies and just hammer it when you're coming out of a turn. I liked the challenge, a LOT. On a track is when the F8X platform shines, on the ride home, not so much. Both my F82 and E93 are lowered, and still, the F8X road much harsher (stock vs. stock, F82 still rides rougher). Smoothness and compliance, E9X gets the edge. Capability? F8X hands down.

Brakes - I had the stock carbon ceramics on my F82, and they had zero fade, even after 5 track days....and I only changed the pads once in 6 months, 22,000 miles (I took several long trips in the car) and 5 track days.

No way a stock E9X can compete with that. So I know the definitive edge is to the F8X.

Daily Driving - F8X not only rides stiffer, but it sounds like azz, and I even had a full aftermarket exhaust. But it definitely has some improved in cabin-tech, I did love the silverstone (off white) interior and seats, and I liked having a HUD.

E9X rides better, sounds wayyyy better and since I have an E93, every trip with the top down is memorable (hec, even with the top up). I traded the better technology and more capable platform for a more emotional experience....and it was the best decision I made for myself. I simply love the E9X motor, driving characteristics and exhaust note....and don't miss the HUD. I only miss how good my F82 looked inside and out. I don't even miss the speed. I track another car, and am able to drive other friend's F8X's at the track.....so I don't miss out my occasional track days.

Definitive edge in DD is the E9X platform, but no denying how much better the F8X can look inside and out when dropped and modded lightly.

Space - The F8X is a large coupe, so you get more space on the inside. Packaging and space, the F8X edges the E9X, though only slightly.

MPG - Without a doubt my tuned F82 with an aftermarket intake and aftermarket exhaust was wayyyy more efficient than my E93. I could get 25 mpg on the highway all day, and even edged up to 27 on some long stretches on trips. Comparatively, my tuned E93 with a full exhaust seems to gobble up gas, lucky if I can even get 23 mpg on the highway, and often it's much less. No question that the turbo 6 is way more efficient (and powerful), such is the state of technology. If I commuted in my E93 every day as a single car, the poor gas mileage would grow annoying for sure. Never felt that way in the F82.

Definitive edge is the F8X platform, but if you're buying this kind of car to save as much gas as possible, you're obviously buying the wrong kind of car.

Sound - ....is one of the big reasons I left the F8X platform altogether. My F82 with a full Active Autowerke exhaust, it just didn't sound good in every day driving. The intake npise and engine notes were less than inspiring (and I even had an aftermarket intake). On the track, it sounded damn good and overtly aggressive, staying at or near WOT. But on the ride home, ho-hum.

My E93 with an Akrapovic exhaust? Otherwordly. It makes a trip to the grocery store memorable. From the exhaust to the engine, it's almost symphonic. I have a friend with a Ferrari and one with a Lambo, and both of them have even said when driving my car that BMW got it right. The Lambo sounds wayyyy more aggressive, no denying that....but the Ferrari and BMW have similar engine notes, the Ferrari just revs faster and harder of course. I will eventually supercharge my E93, and then my E9X will gather speed more quickly.....but it's plenty fast enough for me now.

I do occasionally miss the all out thrust of the F82 at WOT once the turbos are on full boil, as the torque can be intoxicating. But it's rare that I miss it. I love the linear delivery of power in the E9X in a whole different way.

So, ultimately, I think the F8X platform is formidable. If you like the sound, and don't mind having to tame the beast, it's a helluva car. It's fast, and is glorious on the track....and I think it looks good, even though it's a large coupe.

But I made the switch, to the E9X platform (a 2013 E93).....after coming from an AMG and a V8 Lexus. And I love it.....so much so that I'd consider keeping it long term, for 150,000+ miles. It just feels right, sounds right, and is just aggressive enough for me without being ostentatious (my F82 was the same way aesthetically).

Both cars have their strengths and weaknesses....and both are highly capable and modify-able. But for me, choosing one, the E93 won out.

And if I keep the car, then I'll likely just save for a Porsche, or a high-powered Audi sedan. As long as I have my E93, it frees me up to get a completely different animal for my next car. Fingers crossed that I hit the German lottery.