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      11-17-2012, 08:50 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by Team Plutonium View Post
A few critical points that I think often get glossed over in the discussion of Israel and its place in the Middle East:

1) There was a continuous presence of a Jewish community in what is now Israel. Prior to the declaration of the State, that community was small and mostly ultra-religious. But there was never a time in post-Biblical history that Jews did not live in Israel (despite multiple attempts by Roman, Assyrian, Persian, Christian, Ottoman, and Muslim empires to oust them).

2) The concept of Israel as a "safe haven" is entirely reasonable, considering the historical experience of the world Jewish community. While there have been other genocidal attempts, no religio-ethnic community has been so consistently and systematically disposessed from so many places on just about every contintent in the world.

3) Prior to the U.N. Partition Plan in 1947, there was no such thing as a "Palestinian People." The vast majority of people referred to as Palestinians are members of nomadic Jordanian tribes. In my opinion, the great error of the post-WWII Middle East international intervention was turning over Jordan to the Saudi royal family. The King of Jordan was not a Jordanian, and had little regard for Jordanian nomads. He was only too happy to volunteer them as poster children for the Arab League (because if they were trapped at the border in refugee camps, they wouldn't be prone to rioting over the usurper King in Amman). The Saudis wanted control of Jordan because it was their goal to control all three of the primary Muslim holy sites. They already had Mecca and Medina, the wanted to add Al-Quds (Jerusalem) to their trophy cabinet.

4) Everything that has happened in the Middle East since 1947, has been colored by #3. There was no legitimate reason why Jordan, Egypt, Syria, Lebanon, et. al could not have absorbed any actual refugees in 1947. (Israelis and Israeli Arabs have worked together bettter than Jews and Arabs in any Arab country). But the Arab League, as a policy, rejected all refugees precisely because they wanted to use them as pawns to put pressure on Israel.
Never thought I'd find so many things I disagree on in only 1 post

1) yes the Jews were always there, just like they've been in most countries in Europe
That doesn't mean they get to take over the entire country and kick its inhabitants out.
And the Arabs also loved there, so why do you find it rightfully jewish, but not rightfully Arab?

2) How would you feel if we offered the USA as a safe haven to all the American Indians? I mean they we're here first no?

3) utter rubbish
The entire population of the Arab world consisted of nomadic tribes
So you think nomadic tribes are not good enough to warrant a country?
The fact is, find any map of the area prior to the creation os Israel
That area is called Palestine
Whether you like it or not, that's what the entire world referred to it as

4) how shocking
The Arab governments did not welcome the new state that was created in place if an existing state? How rude of them!

Here is a picture to show what's happened in the past 64 years
Try to be objective and tell me which party has done more damage
And this also shows why the Israelis have no desire to achieve peace at all
In about 10 more years there won't be any more areas controlled by the palestinians and they won't have to worry about the 2 state solution, because one of them will be killed