Quote:
Originally Posted by Grip Addict
I was chatting about track days with a coworker.
What is the M3post track rat assessment on this comment I posted and found from earlier this year?
Originally Posted by dparm View Post
Way too many horror stories about Track Night in America. I'll never do one. I understand the desire to attract more people and give them an outlet to try this, but it also seems to attract a lot of absolute retards.
"Bro watch me drift my slammed Golf around this corner"
*crashing intensifies*
My comment back:
I have done 3 or 4 Track Night in America events.
Here is where the horror stories live. In the intermediate level.
Novice is filled with either:
A. people who are scared shitless of being on the track for their first time and either give everyone a point by or they start at the back and you lap them in a 20 min session
B. a few people like myself who are smart enough to know that Intermediate is the most dangerous level filled with people who "think" they can drive better than they can, so you decide to run Novice to stay away from that danger
My first track night event I attended because lets face it its $150 for 3x 20 min sessions, cant beat that. I personally drive at experienced/intermediate level. I did the first event with TNiA at Intermediate level, never again.
Now, I just do Novice and just lap everyone. Sometimes I get stuck behind the people with egos that dont want to give point bys, but overall its way safer to run with less experienced people. I realize that is ass backwards from driving on the road, but the guy who is scared to wreck his baby in Novice is more safe than the race hero in intermediate who almost hits everyone.
Summary - I have 10+ track days under my belt, I still run Novice at TNiA (only their events others I do Inter), because people think they can drive better than they can.
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TNIA seems to vary depending on the geographic region. Here in Portland, it's a shit show. I did them once in 2015 and was scared shitless. I went back last year, twice, to see if it had improved. The first day was rained out so there was only 3-4 cars in Novice/Intermediate, and about 6 cars in Advanced. The second time was full, 90 total cars, and it was a clusterfuck.
It was so bad that I sent an email to the guy at SCCA who runs TNIA. Here's the email I sent him, verbatim:
Hi Heyward - I was given your email by one of the workers at the PIR TNIA event this past Friday regarding feedback from a participant.
I attended a TNIA event several years ago and hadn’t been back since due to how unorganized the event was ran. I decided to try it again this year to see if it had improved to add it back to my yearly track rotation. I attended the June event which was very wet and raining, so there were only a handful of cars in the advanced group so didn’t give a good representative sample of how the event went, so Friday the 10th was a much better indicator.
As a disclaimer, I am an instructor with the Portland BMW club and Cascade Sports Car Club (sanctioned ICSCC driving school). Below is a copy and paste of what I posted on FB for my other track junky friends (many of whom are advanced/license holders/instructor drivers):
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OK, my fellow track rat people are waiting on a review of the current state of Track Night America @ PIR. I slept on it.
TLDR: Not going to do it again.
Long Version:
1. At the drivers meeting for Intermediate/Advanced, it was stated that the Advanced group would have open passing anywhere, including 10/11/12. Several of us objected to that and the organizer said if that's how "the track rules it" then we'll refrain from passing in 10/11/12. Phew.
2. Passing was either side, whenever people wanted. "There is no wrong side" for passing. That means you had people darting to one side of the track or the other to start point by which led to some sketchy passing.
3. Car control: I've never seen so many offs in a single day in the advanced group before. We had 4 cars off in a single session, including one who appeared to try to keep up with me through 10, went off through 10/11 and came back on track just behind me as I went through 12. If I had slowed down any he probably would of ran into me (a blue Boxster, for those wondering).
4. Of the 30 people in the advanced group, based on who I saw as I went through traffic, maybe 10 I would of classified as advanced. The rest where at the Intermediate level... or worse. Driving lines were off in a lot of corners (4a/4b, 6 especially), which lead to unpredictable behavior as people braked mid-corner or chased apex’s, leading to sliding and scrubbing speed mid corner. A lot of folks were running wide onto kerbs on the outside of turns, leading to suspension bumps and getting the car very unsettled. Lots of folks hopping the T3 inside kerb with predictable results.
5. I will say that the vast majority of people who pointed me by did so safely, but there was more sketchy point by/passing than any other group we normally run with. A lot of black flags by the corner workers to call people in though, which was good. Corner workers did throw out debris flags when necessary, but the drivers meeting said yellow would be used for ALL cautions, so anyone not familiar with the debris flag would of been confused
Overall, the organization of it was a lot better than last time I went (in the dry) several years ago, but the on track behavior still leaves a lot to be desired. I know they are trying to make this not a school and something just for fun, but not coaching beginners on vaguely proper lines and consistency means they are just reinforcing bad habits. Most of these folks I’ve never seen at any other PIR track day, which means as soon as they hit up BMW, CSCC, HOD, etc. they are in for a rude surprise.
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I’ve had students at other days ask me about TNIA, and I’ve been telling them I wouldn’t recommend it due to the lack of vetting of self-selected run groups and the quality of the on track behavior. Unfortunately, my experience on Friday just reinforced that. I want TNIA to succeed and become more respected, but at least in Portland, it has a reputation that needs to be fixed.