[MVF4Rrider]

Originally Posted by michaeldorian

When arguing torque multiplication, doesn't that apply to the other cars we are also comparing too and making it a mute point? Aggressive gearing + 1K more RPMs can't surely make up for the 70-100 lbs more torque in the comparing car can it?

Put it this way, the 135i/335i have more peak engine torque than the typical E46 M3 Coupe. Yet the M3 is quicker and at the same time geared for a higher theoretical top end. So why is the M3 quicker? Because its gearbox delivers more multiplied torque to the ground and the power is usable to redline in every gear. When you say "70-100 more torque" are you referring to to peak torque? Bottomline is you can't look a power graph and determine anything. You have to plot each car's power (multiplied torque) in each gear to get the real idea which car should be quicker. You can also compare the same car but change the rear diff ratio to see the % increase in power. I usually factor in car weight differences as well to make it more realistic. Ultimately naturally aspirated M cars appear down on torque which makes people assert things like the OP did, when in fact due to gearing it's not down on torque at all. That was my point to all this. Forums and the market make people believe a lot of stuff that just isn't that accurate or complete.

Ultimately, I define cars by the smile factor they give to me. Chasing higher HP numbers is pretty adolescent, costs a lot, yields very little, and typically imbalances the overall package considerably. Now that I'm back in the States, I see absolutely no reason to have big power in your car. But I do see certain mods as refining or correcting something that was decided by BMW for the masses. For example, the 3.62 rear diff in both my M cars was I think a bad choice by the M division. The 3.91 would have been perfect, and given both my cars the grunt it should have to take full advantage of the engine's power delivery. It also would have spaced its performance more nicely against non-M variants. I'm sure BMW chose this ratio for fuel economy and for longevity/warranty reasons. Perhaps even liability reasons? That and giving the car a better suspension (KW V2 coilovers will do) and it's essentially a perfect road car. I still look at E46 M3s as more desirable than the E92 M3. Of course the E30 M3 to me is most desirable. The Euro E36 would be too, but certainly not the US E36 M3.

BTW, I had a friend in Germany that is now in Japan. He (a doctor) has a E46 M3 with the ESS FI and the car has nearly 700 HP. I'm sure it was a missile on the Autobahns, but mechanical grip is a limiting factor you can't defeat as are speed limiting tire constraints. I doubt he ever drove it over any speed I obtained in my Z4 M. Hell, even the BMW motorsport Z4 M is only rated at 400 HP (and it comes with the 3.91 rear diff ratio BTW). How much power do road cars really need...especially in the US? Whatever my engines put out is plenty for me (multiplied by a shorter final gear though ) ideally...