[lucid]

Originally Posted by synclastica_86

Yes, but Ferrari is not like //M, it is a company dedicated to sports cars. //M is different, it is more like an in-house tuner just like AMG for mercs.

The Ferrari example is extereme, but I used it to demonstrate what I mean by culture/values/emotions around a product. Yes, the M3 is ultimately a 3 series, so it is not that special, but the same line of thinking applies to an extent.

Originally Posted by synclastica_86

Their job is to make bimmer a better driving machine (contradictory to the company slogan "the ultimate driving machine"). AMG did made the ML63 and the R63 (I must admit that it's a bad move... a real bad move), but that didn't piss of AMG owners.

I'd say the AMG owners are a different breed. AMG cars are not exactly "purist" cars (excluding the black series, which is relatively new).

Originally Posted by synclastica_86

My point is: if //M can turn SUVs into cars that are pleasurable to drive, isn't this the ultimate proof that they know performance? Isn't this a plus for brand reputation?

I think the answer depends on who is answering. They don't need to prove that they know performance by messing with SUVs. They need to prove they know performance by focusing all their energy on M passenger cars. We don't really see major TV coverage of SUVs racing on the track, and for a reason. Also, as I've been saying, your fanatic M lead consumer/admirer does not care about SUVs or see them as performance vehicles. That's not what they are looking forward to. So, those folks will not be happy to see the M badge on SUVs as they don't want that association between their Ms and the neighbour's M SUV.

Originally Posted by synclastica_86

I guess the question here is how extensively is the E46 CSL modified? Does it include modifications that an aftermarket tuner can't replicate? Some aftermarket mods are not all about power. Many serious tuners do focus on handling also. Is this enough? What can //M do that other tuners couldn't?

Well, it is all engineering. If you have enough money, you can find solid vendors with excellent engineering expertise who can do most of what M does, but it wouldn't be cheap at all. (Not talking about the $1500 Proceed chip fooling the ECU type of mod here). Are you willing to pay for it--solid engineering will be expensive? Do you want your engine pulled apart so that the camshaft and the exhaust valves can be modified, meaning no more warranty? And some of those mods would be very difficult to pull off without the resources of a major manufacturer, such as the CF roof. I bet that, if they had gone for the CSL, they would have used CF to lighten major structural components and not just sheet metal. That would not be trivial, and require manufacturing expertise the way the CF roof does.

Originally Posted by synclastica_86

So the verdict: wait till the next M3 and see whether it has been reduced to a camry on steroids. (fingers crossed)

Unlikely, but the real danger is other manufacturers stepping in with CSL like "less comprimised" cars, and stealing the excitement and eventually the show from BMW. BMW has to keep on innovating and demonstrating the capabilities of its M division with extreme products such as the CSL or something else in conjunction with the regular M lineup.