[swamp2]

Originally Posted by Meff

You're dismissing my entire argument while missing my point - and not being very nice

Well what you said was rubbish. Let me quote it again, "This improvement cannot be measured for comparative gains as it is a very subjective thing...". I'm sorry but that is flat out incorrect. Sure you can't precisely measure a feeling. If that is what you are talking about then I would call that so obvious as it is not worth mentioning. This mod provides improved peak and in gear acceleration that is EXACTLY what people here feel, report and like.

Originally Posted by Meff

Mods can be measured against a baseline yes, and the changes recorded. The assessment of how these changes align with the driver's expectations of the modification however is entirely subjective. This particular mod has negative impacts in other areas that can be shown through those measurements, but if the driver likes the feel better, (ie better target rpm in each gear etc) than it's a successful modification for that driver, and maybe not for another

The goal is to make the car feel better - we are sentient beings and we assess all things by how they make us feel, and any subsequent measurements are tools to analyze, not the end goal.

Are you confusing emotion with the humans ability to feel and basically "measure" acceleration? I've never brought up emotion and although it has a key role in our evaluation of cars and mods it is not the topic here.

Either we are just on a radically different wavelength, you are still missing the point or you're not making you point very clearly. The "feel" that we keep discussing is quantifiable, measureable and there is an almost perfect correlation between them. Again... A FD mod provides:

-Improved peak in gear acceleration
-Improved average acceleration comparing gear to gear
-Improved "feel"

All of these things are consistent, both the feel and the measurements (and of course the physics).

The only possible inconsistency here between feel and measurement is:

-The car will get to redline in each gear quicker. This provides a false illusion of a car that has an overall (i.e. multi gear acceleration) higher acceleration. It will be sometimes a bit worse and sometimes a bit better depending on exactly what specific metric you chose.

Originally Posted by Meff

Improved 0-60, 60-130 1/4 mile times etc are examples of measurement based goals, but changes in measurements can't be uniformly applied to ascertain the success of all modifications.

I never said they could. However in THIS case whether you want feel or other metrics improved you can measure both and quantify both.

Originally Posted by Meff

I am not dismissing the science at all, it is essential for us to be able to drive cars like this and I agree with you in it's value as an analysis and engineering tool to create and improve.

Some agreement, whew.

Originally Posted by Meff

However, you can't measure perception - and that's what we're talking about here.

This gets back to the emotion thing which in this case should be entirely left out of the discussion. I'm nearly certain no one here in saying "feel" meant emotion. They simply mean their perception of in gear "punch" or "pull" which again is exactly equivalent to peak in gear acceleration. And despite being able to be fooled (mostly by acoustics and NVH) humans can feel and "measure" acceleration pretty well.