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      06-28-2013, 01:32 PM   #238
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Originally Posted by kmarei View Post
well it seems you had already formed a viewpoint before you read it
let's assume that it is not true, and that it is the work of humans
you really think some arab, wearing a galabeya, 1434 years ago
living in the desert could come up with this?

try to write something in English, roughly 77430 words, that also has a mathematical system behind it
don't use your calculator, or iphone or pc etc

and get back to me when you do

i'm not saying you have to believe it was written by god
I am just saying its not likely written by man
which opens the door to someone/something else being the entity that created it.
These type of "arguments" are used everywhere. I'm not discounting the mathematical properties of the Quran within the framework that it dictates. It's completely correct on the statistical probabilities and the arithmetic but that is no way of proving something. One simple assumption change like using base 8 instead of base 10 would nullify the whole analysis (but in all probability would create a new one!). There's infinitely many mathematical properties that can be applied to arrive at a conclusion that would seem statistically impossible but when you look at the statistical space you're working with, anything is impossible.

The same arguments are used to "prove" creationism is true and evolution can't be true. The probability that our species turned out the way it did today over so many millions of years if you assume a probabilistic model with regards to gene mutation would obviously give you an answer that would say it was virtually impossible. The problem is you're looking at the end point, which is one of infinitely many that could have occurred. So if, within a specific framework, something with exceptionally low probability is the basis of a proof that something happened or exists, then I'll leave you on your merry way.

I have no existing viewpoint with regards to the Quran nor do I intend to form one because it really doesn't matter to me. I just take issue with specific mathematical properties being heralded as "miracles" and being the basis of a proof that it couldn't have been written by any lowly human.