Thread: Religion
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      10-23-2009, 05:38 PM   #69
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Originally Posted by carve View Post
What the hell...I'm feeling feisty, so I'll try to take these on. I'll try to explain the values and motivations i hold, and that other, more vocal atheists may also hold. I'll end by explaining my perception of the goals of theists, and why I consider them misguided.

I'd say "lack the belief in God(s)"- a-theist=without gods/theism. There is simply no reason to believe in things like that without some extreme evidence. Atheists are the only group that are generally identified for what they DON'T believe in and don't do. I'll take a usefule but cliched example: the Flying Spaghetti Monster (FSM). Do you believe the FSM not only does not, but CAN NOT exist? Justify. I think it CAN exist, but the it is so vanishingly unlikely that it's not worth mentioning. Other than the age of the stories, what are the differences between the FSM, God, and the numerous 'dead' God's nobody thinks are real anymore.
I do like your gusto.

I checked out the FSM website for about 45 seconds. However, believing in the FSM, which so many atheists point to as the same as believing in God, in my opinion is one of the reasons atheists as a group are "despised" as you put it. Spaghetti and meatballs after all, is an entree. That being said, the only reason i tend to dislike those people are because when it's all said and done, it's a mockery of our beliefs. In the 45 seconds I spend on the FSM website it seemed pretty obvious that my last statement was true. However, if it were a real practicing religion, I would not call them names, no matter what i think of their practices, just as i won't call atheists names for not believing. This example alone is justification enough to claim the same canít be said of atheists.

Originally Posted by carve View Post
Beyond other people's claims there is no reason to think god(s) exist, and the belief is unquestionably propagated. There is not indisputable evidence to the contrary, but this is a weakness in the definition: you can not prove a person's or objects non-existence indisputably. What evidence would a non-existent being leave of it's non-existence? The more pertinant point is that there is no hard evidence FOR the belief- just claims. So, even atheist that are polite and don't use the word delusional, it's an accurate description of theists from the POV of people who see no evidence of God. I personally have never called religious people that, and have never argued this point, but I think I've shown a good case can be made for it.
Well, until we know for sure, without a shadow of a doubt how this universe and earth came to be, the bold statement isn't true.

Originally Posted by carve View Post
Belief in god(s) is very common, and people don't look at these claims with the same skepticism as anything else in their life- even other religious claims (imagine a hippie looking guy approaching you in the street claiming to be the messiah, doing impressive magic tricks. 99.9% of people would brush him off as a nutcase)! I wouldn't say belief in god(s) is wrong from a moral standpoint, but from an incorrect-or-correct stand point it probably is. Like the FSM, it might be right; there's simply no reason to think so beyond peoples claims. As far as informing society...I don't do this unless someone else brings it up. What they want to believe in their own personal lives, in a way that doesn't affect me, I don't care. Once points of a religious nature are brought up or postulated as true, all bets are off and I'll debate it as I would any other baseless claim. The spreading of misinformation is my biggest pet peeve, and the belief in misinformation is fascinating to me, which is why I spend so many keystrokes in threads like this when they come up.
That's because he was doing tricks. What if he took your friend, a person with a born disability and cured them on the spot? I think you miss the subtleties of your insults. You just compared the savior of the majority in this country to a hippy doing magic tricks. More support for atheists being "despised" because of their mocking of what's important to the majority.

Originally Posted by carve View Post
The seperation of church and state was as much for the protection of church as for state. None of these seperations of church and state fetter the practice of anyones religion in the slightest degree (yes- kids can still even pray in school; they just aren't forced to and aren't ostrizied for not participating). Therefore, the intent of trying to insert religious views into secular law must necessarily be the legitimization, promotion, and establishiment of particular religious views. This seems pretty cut and dry. Let the churches and individuals handle the religious rules and practices, and let the government handle the secular rules and practices. Seems pretty win/win to me, and this right, like all our rights and freedoms, is worth fighting for.
In what areas to religious views infringe upon you as an American citizen? Because Iím all for separation of church and state. In a country where you are free to believe what you please; i would just like to know what areas of the law infringe upon your non belief.
"There is no greater tyranny than that which is perpetrated under the shield of the law and in the name of justice. -Charles de Secondat"