BMW M3 Forum (E90 E92) - View Single Post

groovetek · 06-06-2018, 07:51 PM

Hi Guys,

I have been talking to ACL here in Australia about which bearings to go for.

Correspondence is as follows:

The attachment showed the information below:

BMW S65B40 3999cc V8 2007 - 2013 8 - 92.00 x 75.20mm
M3 - E90, E92, E93
Set number and sizes Location Component Half Material OEM number Standard Standard Max. Wall Theoretical vertical Max.
Number Types Codes Shaft Size Tunnel size at crown Oil Clearance (pg V) Length
CONROD
8B1580H
Std, .025, .25 1580H IH F781 11247 841 702 51.975 / 51.991 56.000 / 56.013 1.998 .013 / .058 15.90
11247 841 703
8B1580HX
Std 1580HX IH F781 11247 841 702 51.975 / 51.991 56.000 / 56.013 1.985 .039 / .084 15.90
11247 841 703

So to all the M3 experts here, would the recommendation be to go with the 8B1580H or the 8B1580HX?

Thanks!

HI John,

Yes I am aware that these engines have had issues with bearing failures, and seems lack of clearance could be one contributing factor. Unfortunately I have not received a lot of feedback from the field as to what clearances are being used. We seem to be selling more 8B1580H-STD’s than HX’s.

Our usual recommendation for clearance is .00075-.001” per inch of journal, plus add another .0005” for high performance applications. So for the S65 at 52mm, we would be saying approx. .0015” - .002”, or .038 to .051mm. Add another .013mm and we are in the range .051 - .064mm. However this is just a guideline, I am aware some guys running high end engines run their clearances much finer than this. It will also depend on the actual measurements of your housing and shaft, and may be worth measuring these first before deciding on which bearings to go for. I have added 2 attachments, one with general info about the RACE Series product, which includes further info about oil clearances and installing etc. Please also note the section on mixing shells to further vary the clearance, ie using a H and a HX shell on the same journal, that may be an option if you think the HX’s will give too much clearance. The other lists the main dimensions of these parts, note the oil clearances listed are only theoretical min/max values given the shaft/housing tolerance ranges, they are not recommended values.

Lastly it may be worth talking to some workshops that have actually done these engines. I only have knowledge of one, that is Charlie Saliba at Saliba Engine Reconditioning at Springvale in Melbourne. He may be worth a call, his number is 03 9546 1733.

Best regards

Mark Shadbolt | Product Engineer
ACL Bearing Company (Australia) Pty. Ltd.
253 Georgetown Road | Rocherlea | Tasmania 7248 | Australia
PO Box 1088 | Launceston | Tasmania 7250 | Australia
Direct : +61 3 6326 0561 | Mobile : +61 427 710515
E mark.shadbolt@acl.com.au
W www.acl.com.au
www.aclperformance.com.au

From: j.lu@lumansystems.com <j.lu@lumansystems.com>
Sent: Thursday, 7 June 2018 8:54 AM
To: Mark Shadbolt <mark.shadbolt@acl.com.au>
Subject: RE: Form submission from the ACL Performance website

Hi Mark,

Thanks for your informative response. I guess I am keen to pre-emptively replace the rod bearings to prevent engine failure.

I’m not totally across the engineering/design behind bearing clearances however. Can you advise, given that there is quite a well-documented design “flaw”, would your recommendation be to go with the 8B1580HX-STD?

The data below is from m3post https://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=892838, where most of the knowledge base on the BMW S65 rod bearing issues exist. If I read correctly, the nominal or average rod bearing clearance of the OEM BMW 088/089 bearings is 0.0343mm, with measured ranges between 0.0152 – 0.0533mm which seems like a wide variance.

So with the above in mind, with your 8B1580HX-STD, what is the effective “nominal” rod bearing clearance? Is it therefore 0.0343mm + 0.025mm = 0.0593mm or thereabouts? Is there a downside in your expert opinion in running with extra clearance (for instance would there be greater load on main bearings, which in recent years seems to be a weak point on these engines as well) or would you recommend your 8B1580H-STD product instead?

Thank you very much in advance for your expert advice.

----
Kind Regards,
John.

From: Mark Shadbolt <mark.shadbolt@acl.com.au>
Sent: Thursday, 7 June 2018 7:56 AM
To: j.lu@lumansystems.com
Subject: RE: Form submission from the ACL Performance website

Hi John,

We do offer a conrod set for the S65B40 V8 from the E90, E92 M3. Part number is 8B1580H.

As is usual with our RACE series parts we always offer an extra clearance version as well, part number for this is 8B1580HX-STD. This is the same in all respects except for a thinner wall size with the aim of offering 0.025mm extra oil clearance as compared to the 8B1580H-STD set. These are currently in stock. See the following link for distributors:

http://www.aclperformance.com.au/stockists_w.htm

Best regards

Mark Shadbolt | Product Engineer
ACL Bearing Company (Australia) Pty. Ltd.
253 Georgetown Road | Rocherlea | Tasmania 7248 | Australia
PO Box 1088 | Launceston | Tasmania 7250 | Australia
Direct : +61 3 6326 0561 | Mobile : +61 427 710515
E mark.shadbolt@acl.com.au
W www.acl.com.au
www.aclperformance.com.au

From: j.lu@lumansystems.com <j.lu@lumansystems.com>
Sent: Wednesday, 6 June 2018 9:58 PM
To: ACL Performance Information <aclperformance.info@acl.com.au>
Subject: Form submission from the ACL Performance website

Hi,

I'm looking to replace the known problematic rod bearings in my 2009 BMW E92 M3.

I've read about ACL offering increased clearance rod bearings, is this the case?

Thanks.

----
Kind Regards,
John.

06-06-2018, 07:51 PM	#36
groovetek Private 25 Rep 69 Posts Drives: AW E92 M3 Join Date: Apr 2018 Location: Melbourne, Australia iTrader: (0)	Hi Guys, I have been talking to ACL here in Australia about which bearings to go for. Correspondence is as follows: The attachment showed the information below: BMW S65B40 3999cc V8 2007 - 2013 8 - 92.00 x 75.20mm M3 - E90, E92, E93 Set number and sizes Location Component Half Material OEM number Standard Standard Max. Wall Theoretical vertical Max. Number Types Codes Shaft Size Tunnel size at crown Oil Clearance (pg V) Length CONROD 8B1580H Std, .025, .25 1580H IH F781 11247 841 702 51.975 / 51.991 56.000 / 56.013 1.998 .013 / .058 15.90 11247 841 703 8B1580HX Std 1580HX IH F781 11247 841 702 51.975 / 51.991 56.000 / 56.013 1.985 .039 / .084 15.90 11247 841 703 So to all the M3 experts here, would the recommendation be to go with the 8B1580H or the 8B1580HX? Thanks! HI John, Yes I am aware that these engines have had issues with bearing failures, and seems lack of clearance could be one contributing factor. Unfortunately I have not received a lot of feedback from the field as to what clearances are being used. We seem to be selling more 8B1580H-STD’s than HX’s. Our usual recommendation for clearance is .00075-.001” per inch of journal, plus add another .0005” for high performance applications. So for the S65 at 52mm, we would be saying approx. .0015” - .002”, or .038 to .051mm. Add another .013mm and we are in the range .051 - .064mm. However this is just a guideline, I am aware some guys running high end engines run their clearances much finer than this. It will also depend on the actual measurements of your housing and shaft, and may be worth measuring these first before deciding on which bearings to go for. I have added 2 attachments, one with general info about the RACE Series product, which includes further info about oil clearances and installing etc. Please also note the section on mixing shells to further vary the clearance, ie using a H and a HX shell on the same journal, that may be an option if you think the HX’s will give too much clearance. The other lists the main dimensions of these parts, note the oil clearances listed are only theoretical min/max values given the shaft/housing tolerance ranges, they are not recommended values. Lastly it may be worth talking to some workshops that have actually done these engines. I only have knowledge of one, that is Charlie Saliba at Saliba Engine Reconditioning at Springvale in Melbourne. He may be worth a call, his number is 03 9546 1733. Best regards Mark Shadbolt \| Product Engineer ACL Bearing Company (Australia) Pty. Ltd. 253 Georgetown Road \| Rocherlea \| Tasmania 7248 \| Australia PO Box 1088 \| Launceston \| Tasmania 7250 \| Australia Direct : +61 3 6326 0561 \| Mobile : +61 427 710515 E mark.shadbolt@acl.com.au W www.acl.com.au www.aclperformance.com.au From: j.lu@lumansystems.com <j.lu@lumansystems.com> Sent: Thursday, 7 June 2018 8:54 AM To: Mark Shadbolt <mark.shadbolt@acl.com.au> Subject: RE: Form submission from the ACL Performance website Hi Mark, Thanks for your informative response. I guess I am keen to pre-emptively replace the rod bearings to prevent engine failure. I’m not totally across the engineering/design behind bearing clearances however. Can you advise, given that there is quite a well-documented design “flaw”, would your recommendation be to go with the 8B1580HX-STD? The data below is from m3post https://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=892838, where most of the knowledge base on the BMW S65 rod bearing issues exist. If I read correctly, the nominal or average rod bearing clearance of the OEM BMW 088/089 bearings is 0.0343mm, with measured ranges between 0.0152 – 0.0533mm which seems like a wide variance. So with the above in mind, with your 8B1580HX-STD, what is the effective “nominal” rod bearing clearance? Is it therefore 0.0343mm + 0.025mm = 0.0593mm or thereabouts? Is there a downside in your expert opinion in running with extra clearance (for instance would there be greater load on main bearings, which in recent years seems to be a weak point on these engines as well) or would you recommend your 8B1580H-STD product instead? Thank you very much in advance for your expert advice. ---- Kind Regards, John. From: Mark Shadbolt <mark.shadbolt@acl.com.au> Sent: Thursday, 7 June 2018 7:56 AM To: j.lu@lumansystems.com Subject: RE: Form submission from the ACL Performance website Hi John, We do offer a conrod set for the S65B40 V8 from the E90, E92 M3. Part number is 8B1580H. As is usual with our RACE series parts we always offer an extra clearance version as well, part number for this is 8B1580HX-STD. This is the same in all respects except for a thinner wall size with the aim of offering 0.025mm extra oil clearance as compared to the 8B1580H-STD set. These are currently in stock. See the following link for distributors: http://www.aclperformance.com.au/stockists_w.htm Best regards Mark Shadbolt \| Product Engineer ACL Bearing Company (Australia) Pty. Ltd. 253 Georgetown Road \| Rocherlea \| Tasmania 7248 \| Australia PO Box 1088 \| Launceston \| Tasmania 7250 \| Australia Direct : +61 3 6326 0561 \| Mobile : +61 427 710515 E mark.shadbolt@acl.com.au W www.acl.com.au www.aclperformance.com.au From: j.lu@lumansystems.com <j.lu@lumansystems.com> Sent: Wednesday, 6 June 2018 9:58 PM To: ACL Performance Information <aclperformance.info@acl.com.au> Subject: Form submission from the ACL Performance website Hi, I'm looking to replace the known problematic rod bearings in my 2009 BMW E92 M3. I've read about ACL offering increased clearance rod bearings, is this the case? Thanks. ---- Kind Regards, John.
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