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      11-08-2012, 05:31 PM   #49
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Glad you're back in the conversation, Al.

Originally Posted by MiddleAgedAl View Post
Boy was it ever.

I think there's no question that certain aspects of the Republican platform are not too appealing to certain groups of non-whites, esp their stance on immigration.
Understatement. In fact, if I had to pick the single most costly blunder in Romney's campaign, it was his comments about immigration.

Originally Posted by MiddleAgedAl View Post
I think there's also no question that if you look at any available studies of birthrates, and you see the number of children white couples are having compared the number of children non-whites are having (esp the hispanics who are affected by the immigration stance), there is an ever growing gap there too.
Yes indeed. Whites are an ever shrinking demographic group. If the GOP continues to preach to that choir, they will continue to lose elections.

Originally Posted by MiddleAgedAl View Post
On top of that, you could argue that the Republicans are a party whose policies benefit the self-sufficient and affluent more. Again, studies all continue to show that career-oriented, college educated professionals (regardless of race), who statistically tend to earn more, also tend to have their first child later in life than those who dont study past high school, and to compound that, they also end up having fewer children in total by the time they reach the end of their childbearing years.
In theory, maybe. But in reality, that has not been the case, at least not in the past decade or so. I don't blame the past GOP administrations solely, though. It's just been the overall trend. The vast majority of "career-oriented, college educated professionals" are middle class folks, and their piece of the pie has been shrinking as companies cut back on workforces by shipping jobs overseas and forcing remaining workers to work more and longer hours. It's damn difficult in some companies for people to take what little vacation time they earn. Add to that the problem of health insurance costs, student loan repayment, mortgage woes, and the general cost of living, and many of those career oriented folks are suddenly living paycheck to paycheck.

When you have the Dems offering a glimmer of hope that health care *may* improve (and I don't think anyone can say for sure because there are so many variables) and the GOP talking about overturning the health care laws and taking away that hope, then you have those career-oriented soccer moms voting for Obama (unless they're pro-lifers).

Originally Posted by MiddleAgedAl View Post
Anyone who understands what binary exponentiation is can tell you there will be an ever increasing gap in the size of the target audience.

Demographically, there is a big problem there for the Republicans that will only get worse with time.
Exactly right.

Originally Posted by MiddleAgedAl View Post
The part that must be really frustrating for long-time Republican party members, especially those who were not born with a silver spoon in their mouth and earned their wealth, is that they can see that it is actually in the self-interest of these soon-to-no-longer-be-minority groups to work harder at improving their lives to the point where they would fall into the category of people who would actually benefit MORE from the current Republican platform than the Democratic one! Especially the fiscal/tax aspects of it. There are things they have 100% control over to increase their chances of getting there; have fewer kids so that you can afford to better provide for the ones you do have, send them to college so that future generations benefit, etc. But, birthrate studies show that ain't happening in big numbers, at least not yet.
I don't agree with the part in bold because I think the only folks who benefit from the current Republican fiscal platform are business owners and the wealthy. Otherwise, I agree with your statement. All segments of society have it within their power to reduce their cost of living, *especially* by not having kids they can't afford.

Originally Posted by MiddleAgedAl View Post
What should the Republicans do ? Change portions of their platform to appeal to those who choose to not act in their own long term best interest?
No, change the part of their platform that alienates the growing demographic segment you spoke about. And dump the Christian Right. They'll vote GOP anyway even if the GOP ignores them because they've grown to hate the Dems and there is no other choice.

I have always chosen to act in my own self-interest. I'm one of your "career-oriented, college-educated professionals." My wife and I have been careful to not overextend. We bought a house that was well within our ability to support on just one of our paychecks. We save a bundle every year for retirement (just over 15% of gross) and have been doing so for a decade now. We don't live in an area we'd like to live; we live where we can afford to live given our incomes and goals. And I don't like seeing people who have done nothing with their lives suck off the gov't. So I would seem to be the type of person you say would benefit from the current GOP platform. I don't see it that way, though.

I have seen a devastating illness almost destroy what little wealth my parents were able to put away for retirement. We're now dealing with the same problem in my wife's family. If one of your parents develops Alzheimer's or some other disease or affliction which ends up requiring long-term care, it can drain a large nest egg in just a few years. The rules surrounding medicare support leave you almost no liquid assets at all once the basic level of support is exhausted.

I have seen my retirement accounts take a huge hit because an underegulated and undersupervised market was allowed to play games with shaky deals using my money. Ask the folks at ENRON or any of the other huckster companies who lost billions on stupid gambles while their execs walked away with mega-bonuses how they feel about the GOP wanting to deregulate. (And I'm not blaming just the GOP for the 2008 mess. I know Clinton and his administration were a party to deregulation as well.)

Ask the career-oriented, college educated teachers how they feel about the GOP busting their unions and trying to take away the pensions they've earned.

There are many career-oriented, college educated classes of people who do not think the GOP platform will benefit them in the long or short term. But those people are written off by the GOP as part of Romney's 47%. I got news for Mr. Romney, I know many voters who voted for him who are squarely in that 47%. That's right, GOP die-hards who are receiving gov't assistance of some sort. Go figure.

I'm no fan of Obama as I tend to be a fiscal conservative and I don't like seeing the waste of stimulus funds that I've seen. But I haven't seen any fiscal responsibility from the GOP in decades. They talk a good game, but check the record of the past 40 years and see how the deficit and national debt have climbed under the various administrations. The GOP has consistently failed when it comes to fiscal responsibility. Add to that the idiotic obsession with social issues demanded by the Christian Right and I just have to shake my head in wonder why Romney et al think they deserve my vote.

"There is no shame in dropping fruit in your glass."