[dogbone]

Originally Posted by 72dan

Dogbone I think you make more heat than most of us with the supercharger.
What I see pro race teams doing consistently, it's a lot of work, but the heat exchangers are installed at an angle, maybe 45 degrees. That allows for more surface area which does two things, the obvious more surface area more heat exchange but second is it reduces the restriction allowing more air flow. Attached is a photo from motorsport24.de on their pro setup. They have the radiator angled forward then either an air box that pulls from above the radiator without detracting from radiator flow or full race air intake in front of the wheels below the car.

The problems I see with the stock design, the air comes through the small kidney grills, then we have cold air ducts that pull a portion of the air that was meant for the heat exchangers into the engine.

Not only the motorsport24.de (see photos) , I was at AutoClub Speedway for the OC Festival of Speed, looking at GMG racing's 911 car. They have a big heat exchanger angled into a reverse NACA duct in the hood to get more surface area as well, really big because the motor is in the back so they have a lot of space to work with. The reverse NACA duct seems to be the trend as well. Attached photos of the BMW GT-3 and DTM cars, both using reverse NACA ducts.
It's just some time and money. I think Seibon offers a reverse NACA duct carbon hood, don't know how good the quality is. The motorsport24 setup is using two electric fans vs one large one. I wonder if a higher powered fan would make a difference. What if you put computer case fans below the louvers in the hood to pull hot air out?

DTM is the fastest sedan racer in the world, almost an F1 car with a closed cockpit. It is full carbon monocoque chassis multi million dollar per year, and the rules allow a lot of aero, a lot of aero engineering there.

I bought the CSF heat exchangers last year, didn't notice much difference if at all, and sure enough just weeks after I bought them I got a call from a customer to buy some filtration stuff from me. He is a custom shop that builds heat exchangers for a lot of pro race teams. He said I should have told him I needed heat exchangers he would custom make them for me.
So if we can come up with a design for larger heat exchangers I could probably get a group buy on them. It seems to me that even without angling there is a lot of space between my A/C condenser and the lower grill, maybe a huge oil cooler right there? I think the oil cooler is more important than more coolant exchanger but maybe I am wrong.
Has anybody tried wrapping the exhaust manifolds and pipe for 3 feet? I used to do that on my 72 Camaro RS race build. It did help keep drop coolant temp by keeping it cool under the hood. It isn't only underhood temps, when I drive my car and it is 60 degrees outside I still need to run the A/C sometimes because the heat radiates through, the HVAC just on vent is blowing air 15 degrees warmer than what it is outside.

By the way I often turn on the heat full blast when I am on track, the windows are down, just another way to pull heat from the coolant. Or in the pit between track sessions to cool it down.

No doubt, the supercharger adds heat to the equation. Also, my driving is time-attack-style driving which also piles on the heat quickly.

But it is worth noting that a stock E9x M3 simply runs hot from the factory when pushing hard. I'll retell this story here: My friend used to run an E90 M3 with a TOTALLY stock engine----no power mods, no intake mods, no tune, no pulley.....nothing. That car overheated all the time during 20 minute HPDE sessions and he had no aero, stock calipers and was running on Hankook RS3 tires, and was over 2:00 laps at Buttonwillow. He went through the trouble of having a shop custom build him oil and coolant coolers. In fact, I think his oil cooler setup actually ADDED another cooler to the setup. He needed to run more oil than stock. Did all this work prevent the car from overheating? Nope. But he said the oil would cool noticeably faster when he backed off and did a cool down lap. So, the problem is sneaky and persistent and inherent to the car when wringing out the hi revs and trying to go fast or running full sessions.

To be fair to my car, it can run 1:51 laps at Buttonwillow 13CW over and over and be fine. But running 1:47 laps or trying to get that elusive 1:46 is a whole other matter. From a heat standpoint, that extra 4-5 seconds quicker is brutal on the car. I did install the oil diverter valve which seems to be helping. I'll be curious to try that some more.

The pictures that you included------I have no doubt there are solutions out there, but look at those cars------I mean, the time and money spent to make those cars what they are is astronomical at the very least---far beyond what any enthusiast can afford. You said it yourself----it's a lot of work. And as I've said before, they are not in the sharing mood with that stuff. You tried the enthusiast-affordable solution of CSF and saw little-to-no benefit as far as overheating, which is consistent with just about everyone else. I mentioned a couple weeks ago that I believe what you get with CSF is better welding and no plastic parts which improves reliability. I believe there is value in reliability, but that's not solving the overheating. Changing the position/angle of the coolers sounds awesome, and I'd be curious to hear more, but Seibon only makes those vented hoods for coupes. Sedan hoods are slightly different..... Plus, I have a supercharger intercooler/heat exchanger that sits IN FRONT of the oil cooler to deal with that takes up space, so I'm just a problem child all the way around......hehe none of this is easy when you have a supercharged sedan!

Since you're in SoCal and do hit the track, I'm surprised that we have never met. I saw in another thread that you've been building cars for 30 years. It would be fun to see you out there some time and chat.