Quote:
Originally Posted by Killerfish2012
+1! It's the idiotic, "macho" culture of our hobby. The issue isn't so much the high horsepower modern cars, but rather, the ignorant disabling of modern stability control systems. Most stability control systems now have a race mode, which rarely overinhibits driving. It also now takes a total pro to extract any type of extra performance measured in lower laptimes, after disabling these systems. Lastly, certain tracks should just not allow noobs. For instance all the Alan Wilson designed tracks are great for novices. Plenty of run off room, with little to no elevation changes. I just don't see how it's possible to wreck your car at gingerman, or mid-America. Other tracks, on the other hand are deadly, even for pros, with walls, guardrails, L shaped turns, blind corners, and sick elevation changes. These tracks eat plenty of cars each year, and are no place for a noob to learn, instructed or not.
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I don't think it's the track or the cars. It's the driver. There are plenty of drivers who have learned on "dangerous" tracks and have never had any incidents. One of my early track days was Laguna Seca in the rain and I think I went to Sonoma Raceway on my 4th or 5th track day. That track is covered with walls. I never had an "ohsh!t" moment in my early days on the track because I left MDM on and I listened to my instructors, drove slowly, focused on looking ahead, being smooth, and learning the driving/race line. Also worth noting that I had an instructor sitting in my car for every session of my first 4 track days.
My mentality as a new guy at the track who has come from 20 years of experience driving on the road was, "Wow, I'm a horrible driver. I need to drop any ego and learn everything I can." I always assumed that most new track guys feel like that, but I guess not. Track days were not enough for me. I wanted to become a better driver faster and 1 track day every month just wasn't enough seat time and it wasn't the best place to learn car control. So I supplemented track time with any skid pad/autox course time I could so I could get the feel of the car with DSC OFF, and I took an advanced car control class with Skip Barber which taught me the correct way to control oversteer, be comfortable with it, and use it to my advantage.
The biggest factor in my rapid driving improvement came from taking everything I learned in real life and practicing in simulators. People mock "video games" like Gran Turismo as just a game, but when you have the proper hardware setup and apply real driving skill, it's quite realistic. At least realistic enough to where it actually makes you a better driver at the track. I would spend maybe 2-3 hours max on track at a typical HPDE. Then I would spend 2-3 hours a night driving the same track in the same car in GT5 and apply everything I learned in real life to the game. Each subsequent time I went back to laguna seca, I would be 2-3 seconds faster and far more comfortable.
My M3 was the first car I've ever taken to the track. Started about 2.5 years ago and have done 30 track days now. I started running DSC OFF on my 6th track day and that was after a few skid pad/autox events and that Skip Barber Advanced CC. I've spun out exactly 0 times (besides the one time I was intentionally trying to hold a drift too long at a private event). I could be a lot faster, but my lap times show that I'm definitely not going slow. When I drive with MDM on at the track, it feels like my car is broken. It intervenes far too much. Driving with DSC OFF early was one of the best things I've done, but I feel like I went about it in the right way. So I don't think DSC OFF is inherently the problem either.
My point is, there are guys with huge egos who just go out there and want to show off how fast their car is, and there are others who really want to learn to be good drivers and take the time to do it in a safe manner. The problem lies in the drivers that show up to HPDE's with the wrong mentality and maybe there's an issue with how beginners advance too quickly in HPDE's. It's not the tracks, the cars, or DSC OFF. I'm right with you on your first sentence.
