The never ending battle with brake dust

Does anyone out there still use a very old tried and true product called P21S for their rims to deal with brake dust or has it gone the way of the dinosaur.

It was THE go to product back in the day. I found it word of mouth from a Mercedes owner. The stuff was great.

I am at the point where I am re-thinking every product I used to use.
There is so much product out there that I want to be sure I am using the best. I'm no stranger to detailing, etc. But I am losing my mind building a list and I have watched almost every detailing video on Youtube. While these pressure washers are cool. I am still too "old school" to use one. I own a pressure washer but I have never taken it to any of our vehicles. But a person can drive themselves crazy with the amount of stuff to maintain the vehicle. Prior to getting the Z I used Meguiar's products. I loved their "quick detailer" product. Never made a mark on anything. I used their soap, wax, etc. Now I am leaning towards "The Chemical Guys" line. I am trying to use the best products with a minimalist attitude. I could keep a car immaculate with a few tried and true products. Anyone else follow this same idea?

Skip CG and go straight to CarPro products. They are expensive but they are great products! It's all I use now.
The Reset soap and Perl is amazing stuff.

I use some CG stuff sometimes here and there, but they have SO many overlapping products, it just seems like the same stuff in a different label and color. It's too confusing. There are like 5 different wheel cleaners!

HIWATT Steve wrote

Does anyone out there still use a very old tried and true product called P21S for their rims to deal with brake dust or has it gone the way of the dinosaur.

It was THE go to product back in the day. I found it word of mouth from a Mercedes owner. The stuff was great.

I am at the point where I am re-thinking every product I used to use.
There is so much product out there that I want to be sure I am using the best. I'm no stranger to detailing, etc. But I am losing my mind building a list and I have watched almost every detailing video on Youtube. While these pressure washers are cool. I am still too "old school" to use one. I own a pressure washer but I have never taken it to any of our vehicles. But a person can drive themselves crazy with the amount of stuff to maintain the vehicle. Prior to getting the Z I used Meguiar's products. I loved their "quick detailer" product. Never made a mark on anything. I used their soap, wax, etc. Now I am leaning towards "The Chemical Guys" line. I am trying to use the best products with a minimalist attitude. I could keep a car immaculate with a few tried and true products. Anyone else follow this same idea?

My go-to for brake dust cleaner is Sonax. I am not a huge fan of "The Chemical Guys" stuff. I usually buy the "Beast Wheel Cleaner" because it's cheapest Sonax cleaner on amazon lol.

I used P21S and considered it an effective wheel cleaner. I've replaced it with Gyeon's and Sonax's wheel cleaners (I buy whichever is cheaper) and concluded both are excellent.

Are you asking whether others also have the idea to use as few products as possible? I'd put myself in that camp ...

Charles

HIWATT Steve wrote

Does anyone out there still use a very old tried and true product called P21S for their rims to deal with brake dust or has it gone the way of the dinosaur.

It was THE go to product back in the day. I found it word of mouth from a Mercedes owner. The stuff was great.

I am at the point where I am re-thinking every product I used to use.
There is so much product out there that I want to be sure I am using the best. I'm no stranger to detailing, etc. But I am losing my mind building a list and I have watched almost every detailing video on Youtube. While these pressure washers are cool. I am still too "old school" to use one. I own a pressure washer but I have never taken it to any of our vehicles. But a person can drive themselves crazy with the amount of stuff to maintain the vehicle. Prior to getting the Z I used Meguiar's products. I loved their "quick detailer" product. Never made a mark on anything. I used their soap, wax, etc. Now I am leaning towards "The Chemical Guys" line. I am trying to use the best products with a minimalist attitude. I could keep a car immaculate with a few tried and true products. Anyone else follow this same idea?

Sonax beast to pre wash wheels. Rinse and the armor all foam gun for a final wash if you’re using a garden hose.

I used Sonax for a few years and was happy with it. Then I did a brake job on the front, I went with Akebono Ceramic pads and the brake dust has nearly been eliminated.

Change the pads. Carbotech 1521’s on my M2C and they eliminate 95% of the brake dust the stock pads produce, and are a better street pad anyways with better pedal feel/modulation.

HIWATT Steve wrote

Does anyone out there still use a very old tried and true product called P21S for their rims to deal with brake dust or has it gone the way of the dinosaur.

It was THE go to product back in the day. I found it word of mouth from a Mercedes owner. The stuff was great.

I am at the point where I am re-thinking every product I used to use.
There is so much product out there that I want to be sure I am using the best. I'm no stranger to detailing, etc. But I am losing my mind building a list and I have watched almost every detailing video on Youtube. While these pressure washers are cool. I am still too "old school" to use one. I own a pressure washer but I have never taken it to any of our vehicles. But a person can drive themselves crazy with the amount of stuff to maintain the vehicle. Prior to getting the Z I used Meguiar's products. I loved their "quick detailer" product. Never made a mark on anything. I used their soap, wax, etc. Now I am leaning towards "The Chemical Guys" line. I am trying to use the best products with a minimalist attitude. I could keep a car immaculate with a few tried and true products. Anyone else follow this same idea?

There are a couple ways to deal with brake dust (outside of cleaning):
1) Change to low dust pads
2) Use a ceramic coating on the wheels to make cleaning them much easier and limit what sticks to them

A pressure washer will flush most brake dust right off ceramic coated wheels, provided you don't let them get too bad. Most wheel ceramics will last about a year, so you would decide if applying a product like that is worth it for you. For me, it's part of my spring cleaning. Using a hose without any coating on the wheels will indeed require more work to keep things clean. Pressure washer and ceramic coated wheels? I often don't even need to contact the wheels to clean them.

Personally, I've been unimpressed with most of the Chemical Guys Products that I've used. For lower cost products, I find the Adam's stuff to be better, but none of the lower cost brands have home-runs across the board. I've been disappointed with some Adam's stuff as well. Griot's and Meguire's also have some good products, but all 4 of these brands make products that are junk, IMO.

For wheels, I do use the Adam's wheel cleaner as I like to use an alkaline product instead of something acidic. But I do use an Iron Remover periodically to keep adhered particles from adding up (Adam's or CarPro IronX).

I second the recommendation for CarPro Products. That's one brand that I've had consistently good experience with.

You can certainly wash a car with a hose. But if you have a pressure washer, I'd use it. You don't need (or want) much more than 1,000 PSI on car's paint or wheels. So something with about that pressure and minimum 2 GPM is ideal (you need flow to actually clean the car). The extra pressure over using a hose just gets that much more contamination off the surface so you're doing less work when contacting the car (less potential for damage). This is especially useful for cleaning wheels. A 40 degree nozzle kept 12" from the surface is safe at 1,000 to 1,500 PSI. Tread carefully outside of that boundary.

But yeah, long story short, if you want to make things easier, change to low dust pads, ceramic coat the wheels, and use that pressure washer. You can also use a foam cannon with the pressure washer.

Thanks to everyone for responding. Yes. I am looking for the best and least products to do the job. I have PPF on the front, ceramic on the entire vehicle including wheels. But the wheels is where, since Jesus was a baby I have spent most of my time. Save removing the tires every wash I clean what you can't see in the same fashion as what you can. I joke that I am a bit nuts. But this is what my old man instilled in me as a kid, lol. There was a time years ago when I owned an M3. I washed it every day. Winters. I had a propane heated garage and would do the same. Thankfully my Z will be a summer only vehicle. But I am dedicated enough to make sure the vehicle looks like a million dollars every day.

What do all of you think of the old "California Duster?" I used to use that and Quick Detailer and if I did not catch rain, I could go without a wash.

I have not driven in over 12 years as I was almost killed by a texting driver. I got my license back last year and this year my wife bought the Z for me as a gift. So I apologize of my questions seem out of left field. I feel like I just walked in from it, lol. All of you have been GREAT. Pleasure to meet you!

CJ421 wrote

I used P21S and considered it an effective wheel cleaner. I've replaced it with Gyeon's and Sonax's wheel cleaners (I buy whichever is cheaper) and concluded both are excellent.

Are you asking whether others also have the idea to use as few products as possible? I'd put myself in that camp ...

Charles

Thanks to everyone for responding. Yes. I am looking for the best and least products to do the job. I have PPF on the front, ceramic on the entire vehicle including wheels. But the wheels is where I spend most of my time. Save removing the tires every wash I clean what you can't see in the same fashion as what you can. I joke that I am a bit nuts. But this is what my old man instilled in me as a kid, lol. There was a time years ago when I owned an M3. I washed it every day. Winters. I had a propane heated garage and would do the same. Thankfully my Z will be a summer only vehicle. But I am dedicated enough to make sure the vehicle looks like a million dollars every day.

What do all of you think of the old "California Duster?" I used to use that and Quick Detailer and if I did not catch rain, I could go without a wash.

I have not driven in over 12 years as I was almost killed by a texting driver. I got my license back last year and this year my wife bought the Z for me as a gift. So I apologize if my questions seem out of left field. I feel like I just walked in from it, lol. All of you have been GREAT. Pleasure to meet you all!

HIWATT Steve wrote

Thanks to everyone for responding. Yes. I am looking for the best and least products to do the job. I have PPF on the front, ceramic on the entire vehicle including wheels. But the wheels is where I spend most of my time. Save removing the tires every wash I clean what you can't see in the same fashion as what you can. I joke that I am a bit nuts. But this is what my old man instilled in me as a kid, lol. There was a time years ago when I owned an M3. I washed it every day. Winters. I had a propane heated garage and would do the same. Thankfully my Z will be a summer only vehicle. But I am dedicated enough to make sure the vehicle looks like a million dollars every day.

What do all of you think of the old "California Duster?" I used to use that and Quick Detailer and if I did not catch rain, I could go without a wash.

I have not driven in over 12 years as I was almost killed by a texting driver. I got my license back last year and this year my wife bought the Z for me as a gift. So I apologize if my questions seem out of left field. I feel like I just walked in from it, lol. All of you have been GREAT. Pleasure to meet you all!

Personally I wouldn't use a California Duster.

HIWATT Steve wrote

Thanks to everyone for responding. Yes. I am looking for the best and least products to do the job. I have PPF on the front, ceramic on the entire vehicle including wheels. But the wheels is where, since Jesus was a baby I have spent most of my time. Save removing the tires every wash I clean what you can't see in the same fashion as what you can. I joke that I am a bit nuts. But this is what my old man instilled in me as a kid, lol. There was a time years ago when I owned an M3. I washed it every day. Winters. I had a propane heated garage and would do the same. Thankfully my Z will be a summer only vehicle. But I am dedicated enough to make sure the vehicle looks like a million dollars every day.

What do all of you think of the old "California Duster?" I used to use that and Quick Detailer and if I did not catch rain, I could go without a wash.

I have not driven in over 12 years as I was almost killed by a texting driver. I got my license back last year and this year my wife bought the Z for me as a gift. So I apologize of my questions seem out of left field. I feel like I just walked in from it, lol. All of you have been GREAT. Pleasure to meet you!

Sorry to hear about your accident, but I hope things are looking better now with a new car in the driveway and a license to enjoy it.

It sounds like you’re in need of low dust pads. Depending on what wheels you have, you should be able to keep the barrels clean using a barrel brush without removing them.

My method for barrels is to apply heavy amounts of ceramic coating to them, then just leave it without leveling it. I clean them with the barrel brush every wash. It’s an uphill battle trying to keep barrels super clean on a daily driven car. But my cars that don’t see rain are generally spotless all around the wheel (with the occasional bit of asphalt I need to reach in and remove). The drawback to ceramic on the barrels is that you should remove it when you have tires mounted / balanced to ensure the weights adhere.

Personally, I wouldn’t use a California duster. I don’t do dry cleaning on my paint. Claims of products like this that “don’t scratch” are inaccurate. ANY contact with the paint technically scratches it. You just have to decide your threshold for what’s acceptable.

A single wipe with a California duster or a single wash with improper methods isn’t going to leave visible imperfections on most cars. But it’s the habits that add up. So, have a duster to use once a year upon arrival at a big car show? You’ll be fine. Duster to use on a weekly basis to supplement washing? I’d say you’ll see the effects of it over time. Nothing you can’t correct, but it’s up to you if you want to introduce it in the first place.

Oh, and it’s great to see another Hiwatt fan here. I have always loved them, particularly the old 4 hole Joyce era 103s and 504s. And I actually built a ground up Hylight DR504 clone years ago (from scratch before kits were a thing) in an abandoned Biacrown era chassis. But I digress.

x3 for no dry dusting on a regular basis. Better to just hit it with a blower or something.

Also welcome, and I'm glad you're back on your feet!

It's either finding pads that dust less, and take their trade-offs, or getting wheels that are the same color as the brake dust and ignoring it.

HIWATT Steve wrote

Thanks to everyone for responding. Yes. I am looking for the best and least products to do the job. I have PPF on the front, ceramic on the entire vehicle including wheels. But the wheels is where I spend most of my time. Save removing the tires every wash I clean what you can't see in the same fashion as what you can. I joke that I am a bit nuts. But this is what my old man instilled in me as a kid, lol. There was a time years ago when I owned an M3. I washed it every day. Winters. I had a propane heated garage and would do the same. Thankfully my Z will be a summer only vehicle. But I am dedicated enough to make sure the vehicle looks like a million dollars every day.

What do all of you think of the old "California Duster?" I used to use that and Quick Detailer and if I did not catch rain, I could go without a wash.

I have not driven in over 12 years as I was almost killed by a texting driver. I got my license back last year and this year my wife bought the Z for me as a gift. So I apologize if my questions seem out of left field. I feel like I just walked in from it, lol. All of you have been GREAT. Pleasure to meet you all!

As note by others -- California dusters will simply scratch your paint. They just drag dust/dirt -- avoid at all costs.

OMG about your driving hiatus! But congratulations on the Z4! I had a 2021 M40i and enjoyed it immensely. It's not too bad to wash since it's smaller than the average car.

An automotive pressure washer will go a long way towards helping you clean the wheels (and the car). Like this:
https://www.lowes.com/pd/Greenworks-High-Flow-Automotive-1200-PSI-1-8-GPM-Cold-Water-Electric-Pressure-washer-with/5016491623
Pressure wash the wheels first, then use the wheel cleaner, pressure wash that off - then use a foam gun attachment, foam up the wheels and the rest of the car. You can get a foam gun on eBay for cheap.
I was hesitant to use a pressure washer but now having bought one, it saves me immense time since I don't usually need to scrub the wheels anymore.

Charles

I use P&S Brake Buster. I used to use P21s for decades but changed. BB is just as effective and much cheaper. Agitation is key. Pressure washer alone won't cut it.

I'm a fan of Griot's Garage, and I'm also a fan of minimizing the number of products I need to purchase. Two that I can highly recommend are their heavy duty wheel cleaner (https://www.griotsgarage.com/heavy-duty-wheel-cleaner/?sku=11027) and their Ceramic All-In-One Cleaner and Wax (https://www.griotsgarage.com/ceramic-all-in-one-wax/). I also use their car soap, along with their blue detailer spray to remove bird poop. But always check the reviews, as occasionally they have a dud product. For example, I hated their ceramic detailer (green), and the reviews reflected my experience with it.

CJ421 wrote

HIWATT Steve wrote

Thanks to everyone for responding. Yes. I am looking for the best and least products to do the job. I have PPF on the front, ceramic on the entire vehicle including wheels. But the wheels is where I spend most of my time. Save removing the tires every wash I clean what you can't see in the same fashion as what you can. I joke that I am a bit nuts. But this is what my old man instilled in me as a kid, lol. There was a time years ago when I owned an M3. I washed it every day. Winters. I had a propane heated garage and would do the same. Thankfully my Z will be a summer only vehicle. But I am dedicated enough to make sure the vehicle looks like a million dollars every day.

What do all of you think of the old "California Duster?" I used to use that and Quick Detailer and if I did not catch rain, I could go without a wash.

I have not driven in over 12 years as I was almost killed by a texting driver. I got my license back last year and this year my wife bought the Z for me as a gift. So I apologize if my questions seem out of left field. I feel like I just walked in from it, lol. All of you have been GREAT. Pleasure to meet you all!

As note by others -- California dusters will simply scratch your paint. They just drag dust/dirt -- avoid at all costs.

OMG about your driving hiatus! But congratulations on the Z4! I had a 2021 M40i and enjoyed it immensely. It's not too bad to wash since it's smaller than the average car.

An automotive pressure washer will go a long way towards helping you clean the wheels (and the car). Like this:
https://www.lowes.com/pd/Greenworks-High-Flow-Automotive-1200-PSI-1-8-GPM-Cold-Water-Electric-Pressure-washer-with/5016491623
Pressure wash the wheels first, then use the wheel cleaner, pressure wash that off - then use a foam gun attachment, foam up the wheels and the rest of the car. You can get a foam gun on eBay for cheap.
I was hesitant to use a pressure washer but now having bought one, it saves me immense time since I don't usually need to scrub the wheels anymore.

Charles

This is a side benefit of using a foam cannon. Wheel cleaners can be harsh. After cleaning the wheels, you can completely coat them in seconds with a soap that neutralizes any residue from the wheel cleaner.

Years ago, I put some etching marks in a couple wheels as I thought I rinsed them throughly, but didn’t. I like being able to completely coat them in a pH neutral soap after the wheel cleaner. It coats the brake and suspension components as well. Much safer, and doesn’t take any real additional effort.

Good tips.

N1rve wrote

My go-to for brake dust cleaner is Sonax. I am not a huge fan of "The Chemical Guys" stuff. I usually buy the "Beast Wheel Cleaner" because it's cheapest Sonax cleaner on amazon lol.

Been using Sonax full effect wheel cleaner for years. Sprays on yellow, brake dust turns it purple. Love the stuff. Smells nasty. Cleans well.

If you want to forget about that hard-to-clean black coating on your rims, ceramic brake pads are the best solution.

Unlike standard semi-metallic pads, ceramic pads generate a light, very fine dust that doesn't stick to the rims and is easily washed away by rain or regular car washing.

HIWATT Steve wrote

Does anyone out there still use a very old tried and true product called P21S for their rims to deal with brake dust or has it gone the way of the dinosaur.

I sitll have a bottle of P21S.
I don't think it's much better or worse than the modern alternatives I also use and buy in bulk:
- Griot's wheel cleaner: https://www.griotsgarage.com/wheel-cleaner/
- Adam's wheel cleaner: https://adamspolishes.com/products/adam-s-deep-wheel-cleaner?_pos=1&_psq=wheel+cleaner&_ss=e&_v=1.0
- P&S wheel cleaner: https://www.detailedimage.com/PS-M110/Brake-Buster-Non-Acid-Wheel-Cleaner-P1864/16-oz-S1/

It does help, tremendously, that all my wheels are ceramic coated.

HIWATT Steve wrote

While these pressure washers are cool. I am still too "old school" to use one. I own a pressure washer but I have never taken it to any of our vehicles.

Installing a wall-mounted pressure washer and hose reel in the garage has been a revelation for the ease of maintaining my cars.
This is, roughly, what I have:
https://www.obsessedgarage.com/products/ultimate-active-2-0-wall-mount-solution?srsltid=AfmBOorUxhC3cuXFPPbPrh_c22gQBky1FZlxePnzciWrVYhrDiziEOz1

Foaming 2 cars, side-by-side, rinsing, foaming again and spot-washing remaining dirt spots and wheels, then rinsing and leaf-blower drying now takes < 60 minutes for a pair of cars.

It would have taken me 1/2 a day per car otherwise.
Consequently, washing cars is now way easier, more fun, and happens more often!

HIWATT Steve wrote

Now I am leaning towards "The Chemical Guys" line.

Chemical guys is a budget-friendly bottom-feeder brand.
You can do better.

TimmyTurbos wrote

Skip CG and go straight to CarPro products. They are expensive but they are great products! It's all I use now.
The Reset soap and Perl is amazing stuff.

CarPro has a lot of great products, but they are easily 3x-5x more expensive than Griots, or Sonax, or P&S. For minimal gain, IMHO.

Among mid-tier and top brands, the difference in performance is minimal to non-existent. Most brands re-label products mass-produced by major chemical giants (3M, BASF, Recochem) anyway. I restock from whichever one of the mid-tier brands is running a sale at any given moment.

HIWATT Steve wrote

What do all of you think of the old "California Duster?"

Devil's playtoy -> guarantees micro-scratching the clear coast. Each time, every time.


YMMV,
a

fiveightandten wrote

Sorry to hear about your accident, but I hope things are looking better now with a new car in the driveway and a license to enjoy it.

It sounds like you’re in need of low dust pads. Depending on what wheels you have, you should be able to keep the barrels clean using a barrel brush without removing them.

My method for barrels is to apply heavy amounts of ceramic coating to them, then just leave it without leveling it. I clean them with the barrel brush every wash. It’s an uphill battle trying to keep barrels super clean on a daily driven car. But my cars that don’t see rain are generally spotless all around the wheel (with the occasional bit of asphalt I need to reach in and remove). The drawback to ceramic on the barrels is that you should remove it when you have tires mounted / balanced to ensure the weights adhere.

Personally, I wouldn’t use a California duster. I don’t do dry cleaning on my paint. Claims of products like this that “don’t scratch” are inaccurate. ANY contact with the paint technically scratches it. You just have to decide your threshold for what’s acceptable.

A single wipe with a California duster or a single wash with improper methods isn’t going to leave visible imperfections on most cars. But it’s the habits that add up. So, have a duster to use once a year upon arrival at a big car show? You’ll be fine. Duster to use on a weekly basis to supplement washing? I’d say you’ll see the effects of it over time. Nothing you can’t correct, but it’s up to you if you want to introduce it in the first place.

Oh, and it’s great to see another Hiwatt fan here. I have always loved them, particularly the old 4 hole Joyce era 103s and 504s. And I actually built a ground up Hylight DR504 clone years ago (from scratch before kits were a thing) in an abandoned Biacrown era chassis. But I digress.

Great that you mentioned that. I don't mean to mix topics. I love to talk shop about music. I'm a 50+ year musician, collector, Luthier. Guitar and bass. About 25 years ago I found a beautiful mid 70's DR103. The wife hates it, lol. As you already know. It is A LOT for home use and I don't gig quite as much as I used to. I am in the hunt for a nice SA 2x12. Even that is a lot. But I love the cleans of HIWATT and that they love pedals. But as I have gotten older I am becoming more and more of a minimalist. I got the nickname when I first started playing as I loved the amps from listening to The Who and David Gilmour of Pink Floyd to name a very few. I also was somewhat of a hyperactive kid, lol. My buddy put the two together and called me HIWATT and the name stuck. I wish I had that pep of my youth. The Z is going to help that:party0030: