Someone tested the G80 M3 yet?

Okay, just saw my first G80 (IOMG) on the road. I had looked at it at a dealership, and wasn't fond of it. This time it randomly came around a right turn ahead of me and gave me the full facial. Let me tell, I was stunned how revolted I felt when you just aren't expecting to see it. When you go look at it at a dealer, you're prepping yourself mentally for it. But randomly appearing in front of you? Woof.

Helmsman wrote

Yeah, that was one of the vids I watched. I think Chris Harris is a star. Bit sad though that he in this video referred to the E92 as a "flawed" design, way back when when he did a video on his own E92 he simply loved it. Obviously tons of much more exciting cars passed through his hands since, but where did flawed all of a sudden come from... me no like no more...

Thank you for being honest, Helms, honest to the fact that you like when a Reviewer agrees with you, and when they don't, you don't like them any more. That's what most of us do.

For all the Youtubers who like our E9Xs, we tend to think they're "great", "informative" and "know what they're talking about". For those that don't like the E9X (too heavy, no torque, the rod bearing roulette, etc.), we often try to find ways to not critique their reviews, but the Reviewers themselves.

All to be expected.

I love Chris Harris, but he doesn't always like the cars I like. And that's OK.

Just like I love my E93, never selling it, because it will never be duplicated. But I also find a lot of charm in the G8X, as a larger GT platform with some genuine Motorsport credentials, even with an automatic. I like both, and will probably own both, at the same time.

CPWINCH wrote

just wanted to add here, did any one know this thing is brake by wire? Thats actually worse than the design.

"One of the M Division’s latest technological darlings is its drive-by-wire brake system. It was first introduced in the BMW M8 and it will make its way to the BMW M3 quite soon. Like all drive-by-wire brake systems, it removes the mechanical link between the brake pedal and the calipers, handling it all electronically."

So just to reiterate:
Auto trans (Not DCT)
Electronic Steering
Brake By Wire
almost 4,000lbs
Turbo 6 Cyl

Yeah this car is a gigantic failure

By this definition, the latest 911s are basic failures too since they share almost all of these qualities. And hec, the Auto Trans can be solved in both by simply choosing the manual.

I understand why so many want to live in the past with hydraulic steering and brakes, lighter chassis and naturally-aspirated engines. I get it. I love my E9X too. But the new global regulations forces car companies to employ engineers who can use technology to evolve the driving experience. So, for some of us "purists", new cars are mostly abject failures. But for many other enthusiasts, having a super fast 911 that can also get close to 30 MPG on the highway, with the latest safety aids and advanced interiors fits their bill.

I, for one, like the best of both worlds. I'll forever keep a naturally-aspirated engine in my stable, and a manual too, but will also take pleasure in a car like the G8X which is a different take on the driving experience...and also has all the latest creature comforts and technologies that I can explore. Will it be a "better" driving experience than my E93? Likely not. But it'll be different, and faster, and safer, and fun in its own way.

I will always keep one foot in the past, but also have one foot in the future. No, I don't long for all electric cars, because I like the sound and mechanical feel of a car, but I have come to appreciate turbo engines (some of them feel quite linear based on the tuning), because I damn sure hate how often I have to stop at the gas station when driving my E93. Performance plus efficiency is a concept most can agree with, though yes, we have to sacrifice some sound and feel along the way. For many, that's a worthy sacrifice.

Not sure if the G8x chassis is a huge upgrade over F8x. People complain F8x lose traction but the car just has a sharper response to your throttle inputs, it is basically a very direct race car chassis that requires skilled drivers. If you put 275&285 on F8x or even 285 square, it drives unbelievably stable yet eager to change directions.

Now the G8x has 100kg heavier weight from top to bottom, coming from cutting cost on chassis stiffening (using steel alloy on top braces instead of aluminum or carbon fiber of F8x), drivetrain (steel driveshaft), suspension components and engine. Sure you can stiffen up the springs for higher rolling limit and adjust dampening to balance it out, just like they do on modern SUVs, but you will definitely feel its weight during transitions which translate to lower driver confidence in feeling the limits although the theoretical traction limit may be higher. This is exactly why Redbull RB16 suffered championship point losses even when the engineers thought the car could be driven faster.

And ZF8 is just a massive disappointment on a car that bears M3 badge. DCT guys will know this.

KevinGS wrote

Thank you for being honest, Helms, honest to the fact that you like when a Reviewer agrees with you, and when they don't, you don't like them any more. That's what most of us do.

Hahah, cheers mate! My final comment was more me trying to make a joke, although I thought his 180deg change was a tad strange. I like Chris Harris whatever he review, he's a nice bloke who with massive experience knows what he's talking about.

Tend to agree with your view of old vs new. For instance the G80 I know already without testing it is far superior the old git E9x. Why shouldn't it be, its a 12y later development. Like someone earlier said though, as long as the E9x is fast enought for me, the rest of the massively increased performance in terms of speed, handling and tech doesn't do much for me personally other than potentially take some of that soul away. But who knows what I think after eventually trying the G80 out.

kyrix1st wrote

Not sure if the G8x chassis is a huge upgrade over F8x. People complain F8x lose traction but the car just has a sharper response to your throttle inputs, it is basically a very direct race car chassis that requires skilled drivers. If you put 275&285 on F8x or even 285 square, it drives unbelievably stable yet eager to change directions.

I had a modified M4 for 2 years, and never really liked the spikey nature of the power delivery. It was just unsettling at times. And it seemed to be a common critique from various sources, even owners.

I will say they cured most of this in 2018 with the Comp package though. But I just never warmed to the car, never fell in love with it. Went back and got an E9X, and I will keep it forever.

Now the G8x has 100kg heavier weight from top to bottom, coming from cutting cost on chassis stiffening (using steel alloy on top braces instead of aluminum or carbon fiber of F8x), drivetrain (steel driveshaft), suspension components and engine. Sure you can stiffen up the springs for higher rolling limit and adjust dampening to balance it out, just like they do on modern SUVs, but you will definitely feel its weight during transitions which translate to lower driver confidence in feeling the limits although the theoretical traction limit may be higher. This is exactly why Redbull RB16 suffered championship point losses even when the engineers thought the car could be driven faster.

Having test driven the new G80, it truly "feels" the same weight as the F80, if not a tad lighter. Yes, it's engineering magic, but you have to drive it to feel it. The turn-in is so crisp that it makes the front end "feel" light. And once it turns in, it just hugs the road with very little body lean and shoots forward...so then you don't "feel" the weight. It just feels flat and stable, and direct. It's sublime. They nailed the chassis on this car, through all the extra bracing and suspension tweaks.

I can't wait to get the G8X and track it, as it's going to be a hoot to get the grip to 10/10ths and then be able to scoot around turns at various angles with the 10-stage traction control.

Having owned an E46, E92 and F82...from my short drive, the G82 seems to be on a whole different level of confidence and rapidity. And this is the RWD version. The AWD version will even incite more confidence, though at the cost of more weight and maybe a tad less front-in crispness and bite. We'll see.

And ZF8 is just a massive disappointment on a car that bears M3 badge. DCT guys will know this.

I thought I would be disappointed too. And I was, having driven it. Many of us will certainly miss the mechanical kick when the DCT is slamming into gears during aggressive driving, for upshifts and downshifts.

But the smoothness of the ZF is enticing as well in daily driving, and the ZF8 downshifts just as quickly in its most aggressive setting, albeit without the kick. But the upshifts still feel very "automatic"-ish. The G8X is simply a different experience, with more of a dual purpose nature. It can be a regular car when you need it to be, like a baby-M5...then it can be a big M2 when in "all hell breaks loose" mode.

Sure, most of us will miss the DCT, but the overall quality of the G82 experience will far make up for the lack of a DCT. And I understand you can flash the ZF* to make it shift just as hard as the DCT, so that may end up being the best of both worlds.

And of course if you really want the rawest driving experience, just get the manual.

KevinGS wrote

But the smoothness of the ZF is enticing as well in daily driving, and the ZF8 downshifts just as quickly in its most aggressive setting, albeit without the kick. The upshifts still feel very "automatic"-ish. The G8X is simply a different experience, with more of a dual purpose nature. It can be a regular car when you need it to be, like a baby-M5...then it can be a big M2 when in "all hell breaks loose" mode.

Sure, most of us will miss the DCT, but the overall quality of the G82 experience will far make up for the lack of a DCT. And I understand you can flash the ZF* to make it shift just as hard as the DCT, so that may end up being the best of both worlds.

And of course if you really want the rawest driving experience, just get the manual.

Not happening. Since you mention daily driving, I absolutely hate pressing down on the brake pedal against the car trying to lurch out (AT) vs. DCT which does not engage clutch before throttle is tapped. DCT is the only "automated" transmission I have and everything else is manual in my garage.
And I hate slushbox engaging so slow in between gears, I always have to wait for them vs. DCT that is seamlessly instant. For track use, there is no comparison.

Regarding xHP flash, whatever you do to replicate "hard shifts" with ZF they are just slower than DCT and jerkier.
ZF8 fast shifts at 3/3 (<->F80 DCT at 1/3) with jerky shifts
DCT fast shifts = seamless and engaging(double clutch inertia shove in the back) when you want it
ZF8 slow shifts = cancer inducing
DCT slow shifts = feel the clutches disengaging like a manual

kyrix1st wrote

Not happening. Since you mention daily driving, I absolutely hate pressing down on the brake pedal against the car trying to lurch out (AT) vs. DCT which does not engage clutch before throttle is tapped. DCT is the only "automated" transmission I have and everything else is manual in my garage.
And I hate slushbox engaging so slow in between gears, I always have to wait for them vs. DCT that is seamlessly instant. For track use, there is no comparison.

Regarding xHP flash, whatever you do to replicate "hard shifts" with ZF they are just slower than DCT and jerkier.
ZF8 fast shifts at 3/3 (<->F80 DCT at 1/3) with jerky shifts
DCT fast shifts = seamless and engaging(double clutch inertia shove in the back) when you want it
ZF8 slow shifts = cancer inducing
DCT slow shifts = feel the clutches disengaging like a manual

OK, makes sense. Then simply keep your F80 DCT (as I will my E93 DCT), and simply skip this generation of M cars, unless you get the manual for the experience over maximum track times. We don't all have to love every iteration of M car.

I do find it interesting that you "hate pressing down on the brake pedal against the car trying to lurch out (AT) vs. DCT which does not engage clutch before throttle is tapped". I absolutely LOVE this aspect of the DCT too (I thought it was just me). It's such a simple pleasure at a traffic light, the feeling of the clutch disengaged and the car holds without the brake pedal. And like you, when I get the G82, I will truly miss this....even though putting the car in neutral at a light nets the same results, but it's not the same experience since you actually have to "re-engage" D-mode to move the car forward.

The ZF8 is going to be the largest downside to the G8X for many of us, and we'll see if I myself can get fully used to it. I think I will, because the rest of the car seems to be bloody brilliant in terms of feel, crispness and agility...for its size and luxury trappings.

Since I'm keeping my E93, I think I can, because I can always jump in my rev-happy V8 and get the DCT experience I seek.

But rest assured, at some lights, I'll be throwing my G82 in neutral, just because....

kyrix1st wrote

Not happening. Since you mention daily driving, I absolutely hate pressing down on the brake pedal against the car trying to lurch out (AT) vs. DCT which does not engage clutch before throttle is tapped. DCT is the only "automated" transmission I have and everything else is manual in my garage.
And I hate slushbox engaging so slow in between gears, I always have to wait for them vs. DCT that is seamlessly instant. For track use, there is no comparison.

Regarding xHP flash, whatever you do to replicate "hard shifts" with ZF they are just slower than DCT and jerkier.
ZF8 fast shifts at 3/3 (<->F80 DCT at 1/3) with jerky shifts
DCT fast shifts = seamless and engaging(double clutch inertia shove in the back) when you want it
ZF8 slow shifts = cancer inducing
DCT slow shifts = feel the clutches disengaging like a manual

Autohold fixes that problem with automatics. I also dislike pressing the brake in a stoplight and feeling the car wants to go forward all the time.

There's so much criticism to the new M3/4. I'm sure it drives fantastically. Having driven the M5c I've seen how great chassis tuning can make a big heavy car feel great.

Going from the E9X to the F8X I felt I lost something huge, a NA engine. In comparison, losing the DCT to a ZF while still having the option of a manual is a small issue.
No generation M3, or any other car, is perfect. The G8X gets most things right, as all M generations that went before it.

You still find hardcore E36 and E46 enthusiasts at the track. I don't understand them, but they're out there with their ancient, light cars that they are sure are much better than the new turbo Ms that weigh much more and are big enough to be minivans... whatever floats their boat.

I look forward to getting the G8X

SYT_Shadow wrote

Autohold fixes that problem with automatics. I also dislike pressing the brake in a stoplight and feeling the car wants to go forward all the time.

There's so much criticism to the new M3/4. I'm sure it drives fantastically. Having driven the M5c I've seen how great chassis tuning can make a big heavy car feel great.

Going from the E9X to the F8X I felt I lost something huge, a NA engine. In comparison, losing the DCT to a ZF while still having the option of a manual is a small issue.
No generation M3, or any other car, is perfect. The G8X gets most things right, as all M generations that went before it.

You still find hardcore E36 and E46 enthusiasts at the track. I don't understand them, but they're out there with their ancient, light cars that they are sure are much better than the new turbo Ms that weigh much more and are big enough to be minivans... whatever floats their boat.

I look forward to getting the G8X

curious, have you ever driven a car with brake by wire? (idk if the m5c has it).

Its one of the worst things I have ever experienced in a car and is dangerous in my opinion. Not knocking the g80 in specific just really think it was a bad move to go with brake by wire. They did it, supposedly, for active cruise control which is a total must on a //m car right?

Regardless, the car will be fast and im certain you will queef right past me with that s58/zf8 fartbox combo but I promise my smile will be bigger in my little e90 Like you said whatever floats your boat, personally I keep my boats in the water

CPWINCH wrote

curious, have you ever driven a car with brake by wire? (idk if the m5c has it).

Its one of the worst things I have ever experienced in a car and is dangerous in my opinion. Not knocking the g80 in specific just really think it was a bad move to go with brake by wire. They did it, supposedly, for active cruise control which is a total must on a //m car right?

Regardless, the car will be fast and im certain you will queef right past me with that s58/zf8 fartbox combo but I promise my smile will be bigger in my little e90 Like you said whatever floats your boat, personally I keep my boats in the water

I still have my E92 and E90 stroker track cars, as well as a F80 CS.
I've driven the M5c, it was fantastic. No one has complained much about the brake implementation

CPWINCH wrote

curious, have you ever driven a car with brake by wire? (idk if the m5c has it).

Its one of the worst things I have ever experienced in a car and is dangerous in my opinion. Not knocking the g80 in specific just really think it was a bad move to go with brake by wire. They did it, supposedly, for active cruise control which is a total must on a //m car right?

Regardless, the car will be fast and im certain you will queef right past me with that s58/zf8 fartbox combo but I promise my smile will be bigger in my little e90 Like you said whatever floats your boat, personally I keep my boats in the water

Brake By Wire is fine if implemented well. And it works just fine in the G80. When I test drove it, the brakes felt fine and natural (in Sport mode - too squishy in Comfort mode).

And most cars, even sports cars, they get heavier over time...mostly because they get bigger. Look at the 911. That thing is downright huge now compared to 30 years ago.

So for all of you who want a light, rigid platform built today, you'll have to look at some niche sports cars like a Vette or maybe a Supra, or a used Cayman (something built from the ground up to be a no-compromise sports car - and even those cars are filled with modern luxuries). Sure, a new M3 CSL may shave hundred pounds, but if it's at the expense of my creature comforts, I'll pass. Don't even THINK about taking out my armrest, or it's a hard pass for me. LOL My M is built to be a road car, and a trip car, not just some car I pull out of the garage to take to the track. If I simply wanted a pure track star, a used Cayman GTS would be ideal for me.

Again, if you want lithe and agile, then find a purpose built sports car, not a car based off a basic 3- and 4-series. Hec, you can always add power to a Miata or Lotus, and then you're all set.

GeorgeA wrote

Ajolives wrote

Agreed, I've been eyeing up the F90 M5s, but I don't know if I'm ready to give up on the third pedal just yet. G80s got a lot to give for less.

Yup, and with a few modifications, I’m sure it will be just as fast as the F90 M5.

Fast in terms of straight line? Tune+downpipe M5/8 in the 9's at 140. Not gonna do that with the M3 with just those mods.

Longboarder wrote

Fast in terms of straight line? Tune+downpipe M5/8 in the 9's at 140. Not gonna do that with the M3 with just those mods.

Definitely not a modified M5/8. I was saying how the M3 with a few mods will come close to a stock M5/8 (just speculating).

WHAT I HAVE IS THE BEST THING EVER BECAUSE IT'S MINE

EVERYONE ELSE IS WRONG AND EVERYTHING THAT'S NOT WHAT I HAVE IS THE WORST

I PUT ALL MY SELF-WORTH IN A MATERIAL POSSESSION THAT ANYONE CAN BUY AND NOW THERE IS SOMETHING NEW THREATENING MY FEELINGS SO I WILL GO OUT OF MY WAY TO INSULT IT

THIS IS MY PERSONALITY BECAUSE I CAN'T GROW A BEARD AND NOBODY CARES ABOUT MY CRAFT BEER OPINIONS

You'd think people are being forced at gun point to share their opinions on something they haven't even driven.

These are highly emotional purchases, and how you treat returning customers dictates whether the brand gets the next sale. I don't need to drive a ZF8 to know it sucks compared to M-DCT as it was enumerated by countless journalists. Now 6MT is still an attractive option, except now they restrict power likely so that they can advertise the auto version is faster (here I am assuming MT drivetrain loss is much smaller than ZF8 which is true) which adds another layer of shitness. Oh by the way, I don't like the grilles.

Ximian wrote

WHAT I HAVE IS THE BEST THING EVER BECAUSE IT'S MINE

EVERYONE ELSE IS WRONG AND EVERYTHING THAT'S NOT WHAT I HAVE IS THE WORST

I PUT ALL MY SELF-WORTH IN A MATERIAL POSSESSION THAT ANYONE CAN BUY AND NOW THERE IS SOMETHING NEW THREATENING MY FEELINGS SO I WILL GO OUT OF MY WAY TO INSULT IT

THIS IS MY PERSONALITY BECAUSE I CAN'T GROW A BEARD AND NOBODY CARES ABOUT MY CRAFT BEER OPINIONS

You'd think people are being forced at gun point to share their opinions on something they haven't even driven.

GeorgeA wrote

Longboarder wrote

Fast in terms of straight line? Tune+downpipe M5/8 in the 9's at 140. Not gonna do that with the M3 with just those mods.

Definitely not a modified M5/8. I was saying how the M3 with a few mods will come close to a stock M5/8 (just speculating).

Yeah agree M3 tune on e30 I would think the AWD version would be around high 10's and trap near 130 which is what the big M's are doing out of the box.

KevinGS wrote

Brake By Wire is fine if implemented well. And it works just fine in the G80. When I test drove it, the brakes felt fine and natural (in Sport mode - too squishy in Comfort mode).


So for all of you who want a light, rigid platform built today, you'll have to look at some niche sports cars like a Vette or maybe a Supra, or a used Cayman (something built from the ground up to be a no-compromise sports car - and even those cars are filled with modern luxuries). Sure, a new M3 CSL may shave hundred pounds, but if it's at the expense of my creature comforts, I'll pass. Don't even THINK about taking out my armrest, or it's a hard pass for me. LOL My M is built to be a road car, and a trip car, not just some car I pull out of the garage to take to the track. If I simply wanted a pure track star, a used Cayman GTS would be ideal for me.

Again, if you want lithe and agile, then find a purpose built sports car, not a car based off a basic 3- and 4-series. Hec, you can always add power to a Miata or Lotus, and then you're all set.

You make great points! These cars are getting heavier and there's no changing that. My gripes are pointless as this car is not marketed towards me. I think its time I start accepting the future, even if I don't love it

Fun fact the new c63 is around 4400lbs which is crazy. This is the future of cars and there's no reason to complain when you can be like SYT below and have all the M cars you want.

SYT_Shadow wrote

I still have my E92 and E90 stroker track cars, as well as a F80 CS.
I've driven the M5c, it was fantastic. No one has complained much about the brake implementation

You are living life the right way, sir With a pair of e9x in the garage I can see the validity of having a G80. Regardless of gear box or any of that shit all that matter is you have fun, put down good lap times and are safe.

Lol the future doesn't look so bad after all.

Since I've been driving my G80 for a few days and baby it during the break in period, I can give some comparisons against the E92.

G80 engine does not sound good. I'm glad the exhaust isn't loud because it would be embarrassing to have people yelling at me over my loud lawnmower.

G80 engine has a slight vibration at idle that you can feel in the chassis. It's smooth at speed like other I6s. Meanwhile, the E92 is the opposite where it's smooth at idle, but has some of the V8 vibrations at speed (my engine mounts are still in great shape).

G80 chassis and suspension is ridiculously stiff but still comfortable over bumps. I have a slight incline in my drive way so I pull in diagonally, but still haven't found the right angle where I don't end up on only three wheels momentarily. E92 doesn't have that problem.

G80 tires are really wide, so tram lining is worse on any road that has grooves in it from heavy trucks.

E92 steering feels heavier with plenty of feedback and that's been my preference. Having to put some effort into steering wheel inputs can feel rewarding. G80 steering is much lighter but you get plenty of feedback through the chassis. The steering and chassis/suspension combined makes the G80 feel half the size it is.

G80 carbon bucket seats are amazing. These seats likely accentuate the previous points. While I like the E92 seats and they've proven to be comfortable on long drives, in comparison they feel like a school bus bench seat.

Less than 1000 miles to go until the break in service is completed and I'm able to get the full G80 experience.

They're very different cars with the only similarity being the badge. Plenty of fun to be had with both, even if they arrive there in different ways.

I drove one. It's fast as fuck. It's big, feels like an M5. The interior is phenomenal. No comment on the exterior but I still can't believe how fast it is at that size and weight. Sounds better than the F8x. Sounds worse than the e9x.

The G8x is probably the only car ever where it started growing on me, then for some reason did a 180 the more I see it and it now looks hilariously bad.

It's sad because every generation before that E36, E46, E92 and F8x was love at first sight...

The ZF is the biggest disappointment in many of the recent M cars, it’s just too refined. That may sound silly, but one of the awesome things about my car (and cars like the F87 M2 and F80 M3) is the DCT that can be decent around town, but raw and violent when called upon. It’s exciting in a way the ZF isn’t.

I haven’t driven the G80, but did spend several days with an M8 Comp past year. Super fast, super comfy, but the gearbox just felt slooooow and refused to downshift high into the rev range.