E90 M3 or Audi RS4

no true scotsman!

Agree there has been a ton of convergence in character...but only at the M5 level. M3/C63/RS5 are still pretty different. And the RS3 and M2 are both rad as hell and very different, my only sad with RS3 is Audi threw in the towel on the manual

The S55 in f8x is a fire-breather, it's awesome I don't care what the internet says and the TT V8 Mercs are holy crap awesome

While straight-line speed is not what these cars were designed for, it's nice to know where they stand if you ever find yourself on an empty runway.

And vs. an R8 using the same 4.2 V8 engine from the RS4:

I truly believe they are special cars. Its a car I wouldnt mind keeping for 5 years+. The RS4 Quattro does pull like a freight train though! Those were some awesome races.

complexCarlo wrote

I truly believe they are special cars. Its a car I wouldnt mind keeping for 5 years+. The RS4 Quattro does pull like a freight train though! Those were some awesome races.

Totally. Also, despite the RS4 losing in that video, I still think it's a very badass car.

i drove both recently as o was in the market for a new (to me) car...and I'm originally an audi guy. my choice? the m3. much more precise, faster, felt better balanced. the rs4's when dynoed were making like 250-270 at the wheels due to carbon buildup. that's ridiculous. obviously quattro eats closer to 20% of your bhp but it supposedly has 420bhp.

94jedi wrote

the rs4's when dynoed were making like 250-270 at the wheels due to carbon buildup. that's ridiculous. obviously quattro eats closer to 20% of your bhp but it supposedly has 420bhp.

That alone would crush my soul haha. How underwhelming. Thats why its always good to take your sweet time looking and waiting for the right one to come long. More times than not, something you wouldnt have thought would be considered an option ends up catching your eye.

What I gather however, is that this is a sellers market. These E90's have depreciated heavily but I dont see them coming down anytime soon from where they are at. Id still consider it a buyers market. Hoping it'll stay that way in the next year.

Cheers!~

I may sound like a dick but no real car guy thinks about the maintenance costs or common failures when buying a car. You buy the car you like and that makes you want to drive it every day no matter the flaws. I bet the costs arent far off over any real stretch of time no matter how you put it, if your buying used which you are your probably going to have unexpected issues from previous buyer so the entire convo is somewhat tossed. bmw's in general will always outrun an audi on a road course, audi's have better interior. The rest is really just opinion.

Buy the car you like even if all the numbers go against it, Im sure your gut is telling you something just listen to it.

Honestly, I don't think you can go wrong with either. I had a '11 E92 M3 prior to my RS4 and they were both great cars. I've always been an Audi guy, and owning an RS4 had always been a dream of mine. Was lucky enough to locate a 'barn find' type of car that wasn't even listed at the time, and it's been great. The two biggest issues have already been mentioned, carbon build-up and the DRC system. You'll definitely wan't to get a nice set of coilovers regardless of if the DRC system had been replaced under recall or not, but the carbon issue is simple to address on a as needed basis. Also as mentioned, the timing chain guides on the RS4 are metal vs. plastic on the S4 so that is not an issue. I found myself missing the torque my previous cars had offered vs the M3, and the RS4 filled that void. The rod bearings weren't as big of a concern for me on my E92 due to it being a later year, but it's definitely something I'd look into on an '08 as you mentioned. Going back to a manual vs the DCT was also nice, feel more connected to the car. I will say though, the Bose audio in the RS4 is pretty shitty, but such is life when you're looking at a ~10 year old car. If you have any more comparison questions, or specific things related to the RS4, I'd be happy to answer them for you. You can also find a pretty thorough RS4 buyers guide here: http://www.schnelllist.com/buyers-guide/enthusiast-buyers-guide-audi-b7-rs4

Regardless of whatever car you go with, a good PPI and finding a car with a good maintenance history goes a long way in what you might expect to be on the hook for in the long term. There's also a few other threads in this sub-forum on this topic that might be worth a read for some more opinions:

http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1037078&highlight=RS4

http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=492837&highlight=RS4

/thread.

Seriously though, what a fantastic post. This should keep me busy for the remainder of my day and possibly weekend.

All the issues related to the B7 RS4 are all within reason. My main concern is always engine failure or premature fatigiue. The Rod Bearings on the M3... I know it doesnt affect all E90 cars but the stigma lingers. Id much rather replace a couple filters or monitor CBU than wait for my motor to blow up.

BTW, @B8bydesign, was there ever a remedy for the CBU? I know the 335d was allso plagued by CBU but was corrected by deleting all the emissions / meth and water injection. Curious as I will be living in an no emission state when I return from overseas.

Thanks again everyone. Very cool community despite all the snarky bimmer owner comments im used to hearing or reading

complexCarlo wrote

/thread.

Seriously though, what a fantastic post. This should keep me busy for the remainder of my day and possibly weekend.

All the issues related to the B7 RS4 are all within reason. My main concern is always engine failure or premature fatigiue. The Rod Bearings on the M3... I know it doesnt affect all E90 cars but the stigma lingers. Id much rather replace a couple filters or monitor CBU than wait for my motor to blow up.

BTW, @B8bydesign, was there ever a remedy for the CBU? I know the 335d was allso plagued by CBU but was corrected by deleting all the emissions / meth and water injection. Curious as I will be living in an no emission state when I return from overseas.

Thanks again everyone. Very cool community despite all the snarky bimmer owner comments im used to hearing or reading

Sorry for the late reply. As far as a remedy goes, I just use good old fashioned hard driving . But no, there never was a aftermarket part remedy for the carbon build-up for the 4.2 FSI. No emissions is a plus for the RS4 though, as gutting the pre-cats ("piggies") results in great gains on that V8 motor. I'm at 35k miles and have yet to perform a carbon clean, but the car still pulls great and I have no signs that it currently needs one. I'll probably wait until 50k and take care of it regardless, but finding a car that recently had it cleaned would definitely be a plus when looking.

Saw this today browsing the web. Right around the mileage I want. The price seems fair, would need more info though.
https://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-sale/vehicledetails.xhtml?listingId=471978479&hideBackLink=true&Log=0

complexCarlo wrote

Saw this today browsing the web. Right around the mileage I want. The price seems fair, would need more info though.
https://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-sale/vehicledetails.xhtml?listingId=471978479&hideBackLink=true&Log=0

Black looks great on the RS4, though it does hide some of the fender curves which are one of the best features of the RS4 body style. Otherwise, it seems like a decent buy at a fair price, but to your point, I would want more info on service records. I'd also ask for a PPI report or get one done if not available. These cars tend to hold up well to abuse and miles. I drove a 2007 model with 95k miles a few years ago and it was rock solid.

You should also keep an eye out on Bring A Trailer since they usually feature an RS4 every month or so. Here's a nifty chart where past car sales prices have been plotted out (you need to add in the 5% "buyer's premium" platform fee which isn't factored in): https://bringatrailer.com/audi/rs4/

Here are a few that seem comparable:
https://bringatrailer.com/listing/2007-audi-rs4-8/
https://bringatrailer.com/listing/2007-audi-rs4-7/

And someone got a killer deal here: https://bringatrailer.com/listing/2007-audi-rs4-13/

complexCarlo wrote

Saw this today browsing the web. Right around the mileage I want. The price seems fair, would need more info though.
https://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-sale/vehicledetails.xhtml?listingId=471978479&hideBackLink=true&Log=0

Appears to be very clean, and good price for the mileage. I'd definitely see if the current owner has any maintenance records or when the last CC was though. I cross checked that VIN against the RS4 Registry (RS4 Registry) and it popped up but there was no info regarding current or previous owners user ID or any other misc info. With it being an Ohio car, I'd also try and get a peak underneath, just to be sure the winters weren't too hard on her. Weird that it has Piano Black trim inside but isn't a Ti car since it's an '07, wonder if they swapped out their Carbon Trim or painted it.

Price is a little high considering the price on that similar mileage Phantom Black one you linked, but this Avus also appears to be in great shape and also has the Ti package: https://www.ebay.com/itm/2008-Audi-RS4-quattro/232623585390?epid=74073833&hash=item362972386e:g:wPEAAOSw5nxaUxys&vxp=mtr

KPop wrote

You should also keep an eye out on Bring A Trailer since they usually feature an RS4 every month or so. Here's a nifty chart where past car sales prices have been plotted out (you need to add in the 5% "buyer's premium" platform fee which isn't factored in): https://bringatrailer.com/audi/rs4/

Here are a few that seem comparable:
https://bringatrailer.com/listing/2007-audi-rs4-8/
https://bringatrailer.com/listing/2007-audi-rs4-7/

And someone got a killer deal here: https://bringatrailer.com/listing/2007-audi-rs4-13/

Wow if I had been in the market then it would have been one to fight for! Very comparable examples, though i'd be waiting awhile before one of those popped up. Always keeping my eyes peeled.

B8bydesign wrote

Price is a little high considering the price on that similar mileage Phantom Black one you linked, but this Avus also appears to be in great shape and also has the Ti package: https://www.ebay.com/itm/2008-Audi-RS4-quattro/232623585390?epid=74073833&hash=item362972386e:g:wPEAAOSw5nxaUxys&vxp=mtr

I did see that one. I believe it to be recently listed but the price is more than i'd be willing to shell out. The price does have a "make an offer" option but I doubt he'd like to hear what price i had in mind lol.

The low end tq on these things... peak tq available from 2.5k?? mmm delicious!!

Reviving an old thread for anyone interested in continuing this discussion.

Reasons I bought my RS4:

V8
Manual
AWD

If any one of those don't matter much to you, the E9X is probably the better platform (I've owned two E92 M3's). The E9X handles better, but I do enjoy the endless traction in the RS4 too.

The downsides have already been discussed but here are the big ones:

Carbon buildup
DRC (suspension)

A lot has been said about the carbon buildup, but at the end of the day, the impact to this is performance, not catastrophic failure, so don't let this be a deterrent. My car went 90k miles without a carbon clean, I had it done, and now is back to like new. Timing chain as mentioned earlier is a fault with the S4, but not with the RS4. For me, the rod bearing issues with the M3 were a much bigger (and expense) concern than anything engine related in the RS4. Especially as these cars begin to age. For those unaware, the same version of this engine was used in early R8's.

DRC can be hit or miss, but you're looking at ~$2k to remedy with coilovers, not too bad for a German car.

Additionally, the infotainment system is very dated compared to the E9X, and there are less features like hill assist, or the ability to maintain cruise control while shifting between gears. Little stuff, but still a sign that one car (E9X) was at the start of its lifecycle and the other (RS4) was at the end in 2008.

At the end of the day I needed a car that could safely take me up icy mountain roads, hold a couple kids, and put a smile on my face. Check, check, check! Car is now 13 years old, and I can honestly say it rattles less than my brand new M2 did and sounds fantastic. I would say it's worth a look if you're in the market for something similar. Not a lot of cars for sale today that comes close.

Rupes wrote

Reviving an old thread for anyone interested in continuing this discussion.

Reasons I bought my RS4:

V8
Manual
AWD

If any one of those don't matter much to you, the E9X is probably the better platform (I've owned two E92 M3's). The E9X handles better, but I do enjoy the endless traction in the RS4 too.

The downsides have already been discussed but here are the big ones:

Carbon buildup
DRC (suspension)

A lot has been said about the carbon buildup, but at the end of the day, the impact to this is performance, not catastrophic failure, so don't let this be a deterrent. My car went 90k miles without a carbon clean, I had it done, and now is back to like new. Timing chain as mentioned earlier is a fault with the S4, but not with the RS4. For me, the rod bearing issues with the M3 were a much bigger (and expense) concern than anything engine related in the RS4. Especially as these cars begin to age. For those unaware, the same version of this engine was used in early R8's.

DRC can be hit or miss, but you're looking at ~$2k to remedy with coilovers, not too bad for a German car.

Additionally, the infotainment system is very dated compared to the E9X, and there are less features like hill assist, or the ability to maintain cruise control while shifting between gears. Little stuff, but still a sign that one car (E9X) was at the start of its lifecycle and the other (RS4) was at the end in 2008.

At the end of the day I needed a car that could safely take me up icy mountain roads, hold a couple kids, and put a smile on my face. Check, check, check! Car is now 13 years old, and I can honestly say it rattles less than my brand new M2 did and sounds fantastic. I would say it's worth a look if you're in the market for something similar. Not a lot of cars for sale today that comes close.

If AWD is a need, can't think of a better platform that the RS4; Manual, V8...can't think of anything else that fits the bill. There's no question, RS4 is the answer.

Rupes wrote

Reviving an old thread for anyone interested in continuing this discussion.

Reasons I bought my RS4:

V8
Manual
AWD

If any one of those don't matter much to you, the E9X is probably the better platform (I've owned two E92 M3's). The E9X handles better, but I do enjoy the endless traction in the RS4 too.

The downsides have already been discussed but here are the big ones:

Carbon buildup
DRC (suspension)

A lot has been said about the carbon buildup, but at the end of the day, the impact to this is performance, not catastrophic failure, so don't let this be a deterrent. My car went 90k miles without a carbon clean, I had it done, and now is back to like new. Timing chain as mentioned earlier is a fault with the S4, but not with the RS4. For me, the rod bearing issues with the M3 were a much bigger (and expense) concern than anything engine related in the RS4. Especially as these cars begin to age. For those unaware, the same version of this engine was used in early R8's.

DRC can be hit or miss, but you're looking at ~$2k to remedy with coilovers, not too bad for a German car.

Additionally, the infotainment system is very dated compared to the E9X, and there are less features like hill assist, or the ability to maintain cruise control while shifting between gears. Little stuff, but still a sign that one car (E9X) was at the start of its lifecycle and the other (RS4) was at the end in 2008.

At the end of the day I needed a car that could safely take me up icy mountain roads, hold a couple kids, and put a smile on my face. Check, check, check! Car is now 13 years old, and I can honestly say it rattles less than my brand new M2 did and sounds fantastic. I would say it's worth a look if you're in the market for something similar. Not a lot of cars for sale today that comes close.

I've been looking into the RS4 and E90 M3 for over a year. One observation that's hard to ignore is the number of super high mileage RS4's out there. I test drove one with 178K and it blew my mind how well it drove. Aside from performance disadvantages, it seems as though the RS4 is the more reliable DD option. I'm curious if the E9x M3's can go the same distance, as I don't see as many over 100k.

GearKid wrote

Rupes wrote

Reviving an old thread for anyone interested in continuing this discussion.

Reasons I bought my RS4:

V8
Manual
AWD

If any one of those don't matter much to you, the E9X is probably the better platform (I've owned two E92 M3's). The E9X handles better, but I do enjoy the endless traction in the RS4 too.

The downsides have already been discussed but here are the big ones:

Carbon buildup
DRC (suspension)

A lot has been said about the carbon buildup, but at the end of the day, the impact to this is performance, not catastrophic failure, so don't let this be a deterrent. My car went 90k miles without a carbon clean, I had it done, and now is back to like new. Timing chain as mentioned earlier is a fault with the S4, but not with the RS4. For me, the rod bearing issues with the M3 were a much bigger (and expense) concern than anything engine related in the RS4. Especially as these cars begin to age. For those unaware, the same version of this engine was used in early R8's.

DRC can be hit or miss, but you're looking at ~$2k to remedy with coilovers, not too bad for a German car.

Additionally, the infotainment system is very dated compared to the E9X, and there are less features like hill assist, or the ability to maintain cruise control while shifting between gears. Little stuff, but still a sign that one car (E9X) was at the start of its lifecycle and the other (RS4) was at the end in 2008.

At the end of the day I needed a car that could safely take me up icy mountain roads, hold a couple kids, and put a smile on my face. Check, check, check! Car is now 13 years old, and I can honestly say it rattles less than my brand new M2 did and sounds fantastic. I would say it's worth a look if you're in the market for something similar. Not a lot of cars for sale today that comes close.

I've been looking into the RS4 and E90 M3 for over a year. One observation that's hard to ignore is the number of super high mileage RS4's out there. I test drove one with 178K and it blew my mind how well it drove. Aside from performance disadvantages, it seems as though the RS4 is the more reliable DD option. I'm curious if the E9x M3's can go the same distance, as I don't see as many over 100k.

There are a ton of e9Xs over 100k. At least a few forum members with over 200k.

I am an Audi fanatics, i will break it down like this:

RS4 wins:
-Exterior styling
-Interior styling
-Uniqueness
-Exhaust note
-Quattro of course!

M3 wins:
-Maintenance
-Performance (both engine and suspension)
-Induction note

So win some and lose some, pretty even i say. One lacks, the other shines and vice versa. On people saying the reliability of the RS4, look up @Fabryce on IG, he used to co-found GMG, check out his high mileage RS4.

MisterClutch888 wrote

I am an Audi fanatics, i will break it down like this:

RS4 wins:
-Exterior styling
-Interior styling
-Uniqueness
-Exhaust note
-Quattro of course!

M3 wins:
-Maintenance
-Performance (both engine and suspension)
-Induction note

So win some and lose some, pretty even i say. One lacks, the other shines and vice versa. On people saying the reliability of the RS4, look up @Fabryce on IG, he used to co-found GMG, check out his high mileage RS4.

I'd mostly agree with this except for the exterior styling part. I think the E90/92 M3 styling has aged better than the RS4.

Very good points on both accounts but for me, I wanted to experience Quattro and couldnt get over the special factor the RS4 brings me compared to the M3.

Two years later, I still love driving this thing. It sounds amazing but looks understated at the same time. I would have to disagree on the E9X's exterior aging better. Although I think they both look great, the RS4 and its simplistic and wide hip exterior look will excite even the mature audience as it passes by.

Flares never age poorly.