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      06-14-2014, 01:15 PM   #1
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Offical E9X ZCP DCT Nurburgring time

What is the actual full (non BTG) ring lap time for competition package M3s with DCT?
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      06-14-2014, 01:56 PM   #2
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      06-14-2014, 03:47 PM   #3
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Man that's tough to read via the translator
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      06-14-2014, 03:49 PM   #4
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Thanks but as the title states i am asking for competition package and dct transmission the article you linked is regular m3 and 6mt.
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      06-14-2014, 05:05 PM   #5
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I don't recall an official time with those specs ever being released by BMW or a group like sport auto. I remember BMW saying it was "measurably faster" or something along those lines.

My best guess is 4-5 seconds off of the 8:05 time with most of the gain a result of dct.
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      06-14-2014, 05:31 PM   #6
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I doubt there's a significant difference with Competition Package and DCT.
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      06-14-2014, 05:34 PM   #7
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Over an 8 minute lap dct is worth seconds.
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      06-14-2014, 05:47 PM   #8
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Go to the M4 forums. Some are alleging DCT in E9x offers no benefit on a track. lol
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      06-14-2014, 06:00 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by FogCityM3 View Post
Go to the M4 forums. Some are alleging DCT in E9x offers no benefit on a track. lol
Some mighty quick 6MT guys over there then... I'd like to see the DCT equivalent upshift in a 6MT.
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      06-14-2014, 06:05 PM   #10
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In a 8 minute track like the ring where you shift so many times, how can DCT not make a difference?
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      06-14-2014, 06:09 PM   #11
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Oh what you thought could not conceivably pulled out of an ss, has been in the sportauto lap time thread.. quite amazing, actually.
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      06-14-2014, 06:26 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Careful Driver View Post
In a 8 minute track like the ring where you shift so many times, how can DCT not make a difference?
It does, beyond a doubt.

Here is some data. Me in a 6MT w/ Akra + tune vs a stock (power wise) DCT down the back straight at my local track.

Can disregard basically everything here except the speed differential before and shortly after the shift to 4th.



On an 8 minute lap this happens dozens of times.
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      06-14-2014, 07:11 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by FormulaMMM View Post
Over an 8 minute lap dct is worth seconds.
And lack of Pilot Sport Cup + is worth a few extra seconds added as well. That 8:05 was set up with a tire that's half way between a road tire and a R comp tire. I figure a 2007 M3 on the PS2 would have been no faster than 8:10. So the few seconds saved by DCT would be lost again due to less aggressive tires. As for ZCP suspension, it's useless and doesn't make the car any faster on the track. So we're back where we started, a bit over 8 minues per lap.
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      06-14-2014, 07:37 PM   #14
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Didn't Jeremy clarkson review the comp pkg and it was slower than the non comp
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      06-14-2014, 08:02 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Petros View Post
And lack of Pilot Sport Cup + is worth a few extra seconds added as well. That 8:05 was set up with a tire that's half way between a road tire and a R comp tire. I figure a 2007 M3 on the PS2 would have been no faster than 8:10. So the few seconds saved by DCT would be lost again due to less aggressive tires. As for ZCP suspension, it's useless and doesn't make the car any faster on the track. So we're back where we started, a bit over 8 minues per lap.
Cool. My suggestion is that over the course of an ~8 minute lap dct saves seconds compared to 6MT, whatever the reference/start lap time is. Everything else being equal, dct will yield a faster lap.
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      06-15-2014, 07:51 AM   #16
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Didn't Jeremy clarkson review the comp pkg and it was slower than the non comp
He said it was a waste of money because it handled the same as the non-ZCP M3.
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      06-15-2014, 08:20 AM   #17
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He said it was a waste of money because it handled the same as the non-ZCP M3.
True ! Because i saw that episode on BBC 2 .
But this he said also......
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      06-15-2014, 10:29 AM   #18
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He said it was a waste of money because it handled the same as the non-ZCP M3.
JC just didn't like it because he thought the "push-button" mode changes (for EDC and Throttle) were gimmicky, and said it rode worse. The cock.
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      06-15-2014, 10:55 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Petros View Post
And lack of Pilot Sport Cup + is worth a few extra seconds added as well. That 8:05 was set up with a tire that's half way between a road tire and a R comp tire. I figure a 2007 M3 on the PS2 would have been no faster than 8:10. So the few seconds saved by DCT would be lost again due to less aggressive tires. As for ZCP suspension, it's useless and doesn't make the car any faster on the track. So we're back where we started, a bit over 8 minues per lap.
The PSC+ is a rubbish tyre that provided little to no benefit, whilst being completely useless in cold or wet conditions, and only lasting for 5000 miles.

The lack of benefit was the reason why BMW dropped them as OEM fitment and reverted to the PS2, which provides plenty of stickiness as it heats up. And it works in the wet.

As to the question of whether PSC+ tyres hepled or hindered the 2007 SportAuto lap...who knows.

DCT definitely provides a significant benefit, as does the Competition Package.
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      06-15-2014, 01:07 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tony B View Post
The PSC+ is a rubbish tyre that provided little to no benefit, whilst being completely useless in cold or wet conditions, and only lasting for 5000 miles.

The lack of benefit was the reason why BMW dropped them as OEM fitment and reverted to the PS2, which provides plenty of stickiness as it heats up. And it works in the wet.

As to the question of whether PSC+ tyres hepled or hindered the 2007 SportAuto lap...who knows.

DCT definitely provides a significant benefit, as does the Competition Package.
You claim the Sport Cup + is a "rubbish" tire that doesn't provide any benefit, yet a few lines later you admit you don't know for sure if it helped or hindered the lap time.

By the way, there is no proof the ZCP suspension has any performance benefit over the regular suspension.
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      06-15-2014, 01:12 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tony B View Post
The PSC+ is a rubbish tyre that provided little to no benefit, whilst being completely useless in cold or wet conditions, and only lasting for 5000 miles.

The lack of benefit was the reason why BMW dropped them as OEM fitment and reverted to the PS2, which provides plenty of stickiness as it heats up. And it works in the wet.

As to the question of whether PSC+ tyres hepled or hindered the 2007 SportAuto lap...who knows.
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Originally Posted by Petros View Post
You claim the Sport Cup + is a "rubbish" tire that doesn't provide any benefit, yet a few lines later you admit you don't know for sure if it helped or hindered the lap time.

By the way, there is no proof the ZCP suspension has any performance benefit over the regular suspension.
They weren't particularly good performance tires, just more durable (at least over a session). Here are Road and Track's results with them as compared to the PS2 --

So we went looking for stickier, street-legal track tires—commonly referred to as “R compound”—but finding them in either the M3’s standard 18-inch size or the optional 19-inch dimension was difficult. However, Michelin has one, a BMW-specific version of its Pilot Sport Cup tires, in only the 19-inch size. In fact, these tires originated with the Euro-only, lightweight CSL edition of the previous-generation M3.

Available only as a replacement tire, this “Sport Cup +” version (fronts, $353 each; rears, $416) features additional grooving in the tread, which compromises stiffness to be friendlier in the rain (which it is) compared with an off-the-shelf Sport Cup. And these tires are also able to withstand higher temperatures than the stock PS2s. Unfortunately, skidpad results were no better with the Sport Cups (0.96 g), and braking (156 feet) was a bit worse.

We returned to the 1.9-mile Gingerman Raceway in South Haven, Michigan, where we’d chewed up our stock tires, with much improved results. Although it didn’t feel like there was a whole lot more stick in the corners (our best time was a 1:38.1), more important, lap times remained consistent. But after almost 1000 street miles and a couple of dozen hard laps at GingerMan, the fronts (see photo) had 2/32nds of an inch of tread left. The rears fared better, only burning through half (3/32-inch) of their tread. Even though the BMW-specific Sport Cups didn’t outgrip the PS2s, having a tire that’s consistent and lasts significantly longer during abusive lapping is indeed a boon for the track-rat M3 owner. ——Dave VanderWerp
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      06-15-2014, 01:22 PM   #22
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Yeah, in terms of a few laps for timing purposes the Sport Cup + were not known as this massively improved grip tire that everyone believes is the case and the tread wear on street was terrible. Today's PSSs are better in terms of performance and obviously, wear.
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