BMW M3 Forum (E90 E92)

BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


Go Back   M3Post - BMW M3 Forum > E90/E92 M3 Technical Topics > Track / Autocross / Dragstrip / Driving Techniques
 
GTB Performance
Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      07-10-2014, 03:48 PM   #45
iron_man
do you even lift?
iron_man's Avatar
8
Rep
242
Posts

 
Drives: '08 e92 m3
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: new orleans

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by SlowSaloonM3 View Post
you can go 10,000 times harder than your first track day ever.

and we need vids or you are just lying to us.
I cant wait. I plan on it I didnt have my go pro with me and forgot to record on harrys lap timer. I will do the video overlay next time. Im shooting to knock 5 seconds off my lap when I go.
Appreciate 0
      07-10-2014, 04:19 PM   #46
pkimM3r
Banned
pkimM3r's Avatar
96
Rep
7,321
Posts

 
Drives: m3 saloon in granny mode.
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: lost angeles

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by iron_man View Post
I cant wait. I plan on it I didnt have my go pro with me and forgot to record on harrys lap timer. I will do the video overlay next time. Im shooting to knock 5 seconds off my lap when I go.
dont be surprised if you knock 10+ seconds!
Appreciate 0
      07-10-2014, 04:27 PM   #47
bdaddylo
Major
bdaddylo's Avatar
United_States
17
Rep
1,134
Posts

 
Drives: 2011 E90 M3 ZCP
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Houston, TX

iTrader: (2)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by iron_man View Post
I cant wait. I plan on it I didnt have my go pro with me and forgot to record on harrys lap timer. I will do the video overlay next time. Im shooting to knock 5 seconds off my lap when I go.
So, what were your times?
__________________
_______________________
2011 E90 M3 ZCP/AW/Ohlins R&T
Appreciate 0
      07-10-2014, 04:46 PM   #48
radiantm3
Apex Everything!
radiantm3's Avatar
United_States
159
Rep
3,877
Posts

 
Drives: >1000 HP in my garage
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Danville, CA

iTrader: (6)

Garage List
2011 E92 M3  [4.80]
2013 BMW X5M  [4.33]
2014 BMW i3  [0.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by iron_man View Post
I cant wait. I plan on it I didnt have my go pro with me and forgot to record on harrys lap timer. I will do the video overlay next time. Im shooting to knock 5 seconds off my lap when I go.
If that was really your first track day, I wouldn't worry too much about chasing times. Being faster than race prepped mustangs just means your friends are really slow. The worst thing for a track newbie is over-confidence. I've seen it happen far too often and those are the guys who end up getting their cars towed back home.

My first few track days completely humiliated me as a driver, which in turn humbled me greatly. There's just so much to learn and being fast takes years and years to master. Every time I think I'm pretty fast with a new personal best, there's a guy in a slower car that is faster. Once you get faster, trying to shave off a tenth of a second feels impossible. Then one day you follow a faster car around the track and end up being a whole second faster. Welcome to the world of performance driving.
Appreciate 0
      07-10-2014, 05:08 PM   #49
Z K
Colonel
Z K's Avatar
United_States
26
Rep
2,174
Posts

 
Drives: E90 M3, MK6 GLI
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: San Francisco

iTrader: (3)

Quote:
Originally Posted by radiantm3 View Post
If that was really your first track day, I wouldn't worry too much about chasing times. Being faster than race prepped mustangs just means your friends are really slow. The worst thing for a track newbie is over-confidence. I've seen it happen far too often and those are the guys who end up getting their cars towed back home.

My first few track days completely humiliated me as a driver, which in turn humbled me greatly. There's just so much to learn and being fast takes years and years to master. Every time I think I'm pretty fast with a new personal best, there's a guy in a slower car that is faster. Once you get faster, trying to shave off a tenth of a second feels impossible. Then one day you follow a faster car around the track and end up being a whole second faster. Welcome to the world of performance driving.
+1

I've been tracking for 15 years but every new car is a different learning experience and lack of seat time lately means my lap times are not too good.

I found out at my last track day another M3 owner driving a Ford Focus rental car was just 3 seconds slower than my fastest lap time... very humbling.
__________________
Auto Detailing Enthusiast!
Appreciate 0
      07-10-2014, 05:33 PM   #50
pkimM3r
Banned
pkimM3r's Avatar
96
Rep
7,321
Posts

 
Drives: m3 saloon in granny mode.
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: lost angeles

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Z K View Post
+1

I've been tracking for 15 years but every new car is a different learning experience and lack of seat time lately means my lap times are not too good.

I found out at my last track day another M3 owner driving a Ford Focus rental car was just 3 seconds slower than my fastest lap time... very humbling.
must have been a heavily modded ST. Or, that's what I would be telling myself
Appreciate 0
      07-10-2014, 06:35 PM   #51
bdaddylo
Major
bdaddylo's Avatar
United_States
17
Rep
1,134
Posts

 
Drives: 2011 E90 M3 ZCP
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Houston, TX

iTrader: (2)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by radiantm3
If that was really your first track day, I wouldn't worry too much about chasing times. Being faster than race prepped mustangs just means your friends are really slow. The worst thing for a track newbie is over-confidence. I've seen it happen far too often and those are the guys who end up getting their cars towed back home.

My first few track days completely humiliated me as a driver, which in turn humbled me greatly. There's just so much to learn and being fast takes years and years to master. Every time I think I'm pretty fast with a new personal best, there's a guy in a slower car that is faster. Once you get faster, trying to shave off a tenth of a second feels impossible. Then one day you follow a faster car around the track and end up being a whole second faster. Welcome to the world of performance driving.
+1

Very true. I asked the question to determine how good the OP was driving or really how bad the guys in the Mustangs were. It's easy to become overconfident and you always have to bring yourself down to earth or situations happen like the guy in the video.

NOLA is a relatively safe track because it is flat with a lot of runoff and only two areas where you can have a major impact with a barrier/wall. There is so much to learn in car control and it's best to take is slowly.
__________________
_______________________
2011 E90 M3 ZCP/AW/Ohlins R&T
Appreciate 0
      07-10-2014, 07:26 PM   #52
klammer
Brigadier General
40
Rep
3,244
Posts

 
Drives: 11 spc gry m3 e90, 07 X5
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: chicago

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by radiantm3
Quote:
Originally Posted by iron_man View Post
I cant wait. I plan on it I didnt have my go pro with me and forgot to record on harrys lap timer. I will do the video overlay next time. Im shooting to knock 5 seconds off my lap when I go.
If that was really your first track day, I wouldn't worry too much about chasing times. Being faster than race prepped mustangs just means your friends are really slow. The worst thing for a track newbie is over-confidence. I've seen it happen far too often and those are the guys who end up getting their cars towed back home.

My first few track days completely humiliated me as a driver, which in turn humbled me greatly. There's just so much to learn and being fast takes years and years to master. Every time I think I'm pretty fast with a new personal best, there's a guy in a slower car that is faster. Once you get faster, trying to shave off a tenth of a second feels impossible. Then one day you follow a faster car around the track and end up being a whole second faster. Welcome to the world of performance driving.
TRUTH
__________________
mods: akra evo, dinan 3.45 diff, ess akra tune, dinan stg.3, Alcon bbk, HRE P40
Appreciate 0
      07-10-2014, 09:28 PM   #53
iron_man
do you even lift?
iron_man's Avatar
8
Rep
242
Posts

 
Drives: '08 e92 m3
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: new orleans

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by bdaddylo View Post
So, what were your times?
My fastest time was 2:09.01. I stayed right at mid 2:10 as an average. I know I can make up a lot of time in the S turns, following my buddy in the fr500 I had to lift that whole time through there because he was lifting. But when I was by myself I was flat out through there so I can def shave some time there. Also, 2 turns before the back straight I can pick up some time.
This was the 2.75 mile course btw
Quote:
Originally Posted by radiantm3 View Post
If that was really your first track day, I wouldn't worry too much about chasing times. Being faster than race prepped mustangs just means your friends are really slow. The worst thing for a track newbie is over-confidence. I've seen it happen far too often and those are the guys who end up getting their cars towed back home.

My first few track days completely humiliated me as a driver, which in turn humbled me greatly. There's just so much to learn and being fast takes years and years to master. Every time I think I'm pretty fast with a new personal best, there's a guy in a slower car that is faster. Once you get faster, trying to shave off a tenth of a second feels impossible. Then one day you follow a faster car around the track and end up being a whole second faster. Welcome to the world of performance driving.
For half the first session I had one of the instructors with me to teach me the course. That last time was at the end of my final session.
__________________
08 E92 M3 l Jet Black l C/F roof l 6speed l Technology Package l Megan Racing axleback
Appreciate 0
      07-11-2014, 03:12 AM   #54
krx927
Private First Class
2
Rep
124
Posts

 
Drives: E90 M3
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Europe

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by M3 Pilot View Post
Just grab some 900/1000 grit sandpaper, remove the wheels, pour some water on rotors and sand it down then spray brake cleaners on it

Re-bed the pads again.
I did this and it did not help! Then I even used more coarse sand paper (and polished it of with 1000) and tried again - no effect! When this happened I also thought I warped the rotors. I just could not believe that it is pad deposit.
I was already scheduled to cut the rotors to fix it, but luckily I took a really long trip before that and the rotors cleaned.
Just to mention when I put pad deposit on the rotors I had OEM pads. I also abused the brakes to death when this happened.

Now this will not be happening any more with my new AP Racing BBK
Appreciate 0
      07-11-2014, 05:48 AM   #55
M3 Pilot
First Lieutenant
Australia
6
Rep
388
Posts

 
Drives: 13' E92 M3 Comp Pack
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Australia

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by krx927 View Post
I did this and it did not help! Then I even used more coarse sand paper (and polished it of with 1000) and tried again - no effect! When this happened I also thought I warped the rotors. I just could not believe that it is pad deposit.
I was already scheduled to cut the rotors to fix it, but luckily I took a really long trip before that and the rotors cleaned.
Just to mention when I put pad deposit on the rotors I had OEM pads. I also abused the brakes to death when this happened.

Now this will not be happening any more with my new AP Racing BBK
The BBK has no part in pad deposit. The pads you use and the bed in procedure matters more in terms of pad deposit.

Strangely, the sandpaper method worked instantly when I used Endless Pads on Stock Brembo (Evo IX).

It was when I upgrade to AP Racing with Pagids pads that caused Pad deposits. Again, was rectified with sand paper and probably caused by improper bed-in procedure on my part.

I should also mention that it helps to drive a few rounds in the parking lot to cool down your brakes after several laps at the track. This seems to 100% prevent uneven pad deposits with subsequent track days for me.
Appreciate 0
      07-11-2014, 09:56 AM   #56
krx927
Private First Class
2
Rep
124
Posts

 
Drives: E90 M3
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Europe

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by M3 Pilot View Post
The BBK has no part in pad deposit. The pads you use and the bed in procedure matters more in terms of pad deposit.
Of course BBK plays big part in it, brakes do not get so hot and they cool down significantly faster.

Quote:
Originally Posted by M3 Pilot View Post
I should also mention that it helps to drive a few rounds in the parking lot to cool down your brakes after several laps at the track. This seems to 100% prevent uneven pad deposits with subsequent track days for me.
I do that constantly. Even when I got the issue with pad deposits I was doing it. Unfortunately at that time I obviously got brakes so hot that they did not cool down enough and I got pad deposits.


One question for you since you are running AP Racing. Do you also have the issue of drone noise (similar to rubbing a finger around the rim of a wine glass)? That is when you are driving slowly and not pressing the brakes. It is happening to me constantly, specially when I am turning.
Appreciate 0
      07-11-2014, 05:26 PM   #57
iron_man
do you even lift?
iron_man's Avatar
8
Rep
242
Posts

 
Drives: '08 e92 m3
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: new orleans

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by bdaddylo View Post
So, what were your times?
What were your times at nola?
__________________
08 E92 M3 l Jet Black l C/F roof l 6speed l Technology Package l Megan Racing axleback
Appreciate 0
      07-11-2014, 06:13 PM   #58
AlpineV8
Loading...
AlpineV8's Avatar
0
Rep
91
Posts

 
Drives: 2010 E90 M3 DCT
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Palos Verdes

iTrader: (0)

Track days are fantastic. So much fun. I've tracked both my previous cars several times each. Hard on the car(s) but fun. I may track the M3 one day. Maybe.
__________________
2010 Alpine White DCT /// MRR GT1 Wheels
Appreciate 0
      07-11-2014, 08:19 PM   #59
M3 Pilot
First Lieutenant
Australia
6
Rep
388
Posts

 
Drives: 13' E92 M3 Comp Pack
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Australia

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by krx927 View Post
Of course BBK plays big part in it, brakes do not get so hot and they cool down significantly faster.



I do that constantly. Even when I got the issue with pad deposits I was doing it. Unfortunately at that time I obviously got brakes so hot that they did not cool down enough and I got pad deposits.


One question for you since you are running AP Racing. Do you also have the issue of drone noise (similar to rubbing a finger around the rim of a wine glass)? That is when you are driving slowly and not pressing the brakes. It is happening to me constantly, specially when I am turning.
You can still get uneven pad deposits with or without BBK. Hence nothing to do with having BBK.

Its all about proper bed in and cool down procedures and you will be fine. A BBK can tolerate heat longer than stock brakes while driving/racing but doesn't mean you should pull into the pits after a hot lap and walk away. Depending on track length, a cool down lap and several rounds at the parking lot will cool down/prevent hot spots.

I get the drone sound all the time on AP Racing. These brakes have a little flex in them which does move within millimeters.

So long you inspect the mounts are torqued correctly and the S/S lines are not in contact with rotational parts.
Appreciate 0
      07-12-2014, 01:27 AM   #60
jc05e46m3
Colonel
45
Rep
2,541
Posts

 
Drives: '15 YMB/SO M4
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: SoCal

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by FormulaMMM View Post
Probably lost a wheel weight or two. Check the fronts and see if any are missing. Wheel barrels get hot and the adhesive melts, that's why track regulars tape the weights down.

At the risk of drawing the ire of the non-track contingent, I am of the opinion after driving the M3 in about every possible road environment, that it cannot be fully appreciated unless also taken out on track. Glad you had a blast.
I never thought of taping them down. Damn. Nice call.

Also, I think upping the fluid on the E92s is good too. I used SRF along with PF08s and Stoptech SS lines. Seemed to be good enough for me on stock rotors.
__________________
'15 /// M4 - YMB/SO
'12 E92 ///M3 ZCP - AW/FR - Sold
'05 E46 ///M3 - TiAg/IR- Sold
Appreciate 0
      07-12-2014, 10:31 AM   #61
Killerfish2012
Major
21
Rep
1,405
Posts

 
Drives: E90 335I, E92 M3
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Midwest

iTrader: (4)

Quote:
Originally Posted by iron_man View Post
I just went. Didnt know I was supposed to make special preparations please elaborate. I have stoptech pads. But I feel a slight vibration now in my steering wheel at about 75+
OP you have an 08 Vehicle, so if you've not changed the following do so, and get an alignment: Upper & Lower control arms and tie rods. I just had the same experience as you, and even though I lost wheel weights, that pretty much solved the issue. In my experiences BMW suspension components are good for like 75K miles of street use, so being yours have seen some street miles, I'm guessing that the track day probably pushed them over the edge.
__________________
E90 335I: FBO +wavetrac LSD
E92 M3: K&N, Rouge Engineering Pulleys, Macht Schnell Test Pipes, Pagid S, V1
Appreciate 0
      07-12-2014, 10:33 AM   #62
Killerfish2012
Major
21
Rep
1,405
Posts

 
Drives: E90 335I, E92 M3
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Midwest

iTrader: (4)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Adobong_M View Post
The E92 M3 makes a driver inexplicably happy even if they loose control of the car on the track! Proof below:

That's just DSC off in a non Alan Wilson Designed track.
__________________
E90 335I: FBO +wavetrac LSD
E92 M3: K&N, Rouge Engineering Pulleys, Macht Schnell Test Pipes, Pagid S, V1
Appreciate 0
      07-12-2014, 11:29 AM   #63
iron_man
do you even lift?
iron_man's Avatar
8
Rep
242
Posts

 
Drives: '08 e92 m3
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: new orleans

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Killerfish2012 View Post
OP you have an 08 Vehicle, so if you've not changed the following do so, and get an alignment: Upper & Lower control arms and tie rods. I just had the same experience as you, and even though I lost wheel weights, that pretty much solved the issue. In my experiences BMW suspension components are good for like 75K miles of street use, so being yours have seen some street miles, I'm guessing that the track day probably pushed them over the edge.
I only have 33k miles on my car though.
__________________
08 E92 M3 l Jet Black l C/F roof l 6speed l Technology Package l Megan Racing axleback
Appreciate 0
      07-12-2014, 02:37 PM   #64
Killerfish2012
Major
21
Rep
1,405
Posts

 
Drives: E90 335I, E92 M3
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Midwest

iTrader: (4)

Quote:
Originally Posted by iron_man View Post
I only have 33k miles on my car though.
Have everything I mentioned checked for play. You don't have the miles, but you have the years. You could have hit a really bad pot hole a while back.
__________________
E90 335I: FBO +wavetrac LSD
E92 M3: K&N, Rouge Engineering Pulleys, Macht Schnell Test Pipes, Pagid S, V1
Appreciate 0
      07-12-2014, 05:21 PM   #65
bigjae1976
That's what she said...
bigjae1976's Avatar
83
Rep
5,625
Posts

 
Drives: 11 E90 M3 Individual
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Milwaukee, WI

iTrader: (12)

Garage List
2004 BMW M3  [4.50]
2011 BMW E90 M3  [5.00]
2013 BMW 328i  [5.00]
Pad deposits. You'll get them from street pads. Street pads work using pressure and friction. When you overheat the pad material it will start to chunk off as the rotor passes over the pad, where the piece of pad is surrounded by hot pad and hot rotor. Then the chunk or piece is exposed to air, it cools and then gets kind of welded to the rotor.

High temp track pads work by sticking to the rotor which is why you need to bed in track pads to transfer a layer of pad material onto the rotor. It also is the reason why you need heat for track pads to work optimally. So the pad adheres or sticks to the rotor or the layer of pad material on the rotor which slows the rotation of the rotor. Which is why you will rarely get pad deposits with high temp pads.

You can fix pad deposits by spraying your rotors with water in the evening. Let the rotors rust up and then just drive the car the next day.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sgrinavi View Post
Was the track a little damp? It looks as though he may have lost a little control over the rumble strips - maybe he straightened out the wheel when a tire was off the ground.
That was a lift off the throttle and no steering correction.
__________________


Sponsored by Momentum BMW #593...We Bleed BMW BLUE!
Appreciate 0
      07-12-2014, 05:33 PM   #66
The HACK
Garland Operator 7G
The HACK's Avatar
41
Rep
3,483
Posts

 
Drives: 2006 MZ4C, 2013 Veloster Turbo
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Welcome to Jamaica have a nice day

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by M3 Esq View Post
...but what did this guy do wrong?
Mistake number 1: Zero respect for the track, the sport, and his own personal safety, judging from his reaction. Driving on track is like relationship with a woman. You can only treat her wrong and disrespect her for so long before you find yourself in an abandoned parking lot with an icebox looking for your severed unit.

Not saying those that fear and respect the track they're on won't ever crash. But you know those that don't care if they crash at all...WILL.

Mistake number 2: We always stress, in our classes, that the next corner after a pass is always the most dangers corner. There's a very good reason for it. Depending on the speed differential, you're likely either going faster than normal (due to drafting), or you're off-line, or you're late braking. Any one of the above can throw you out of rhythm, thus the corner after each pass, you have to bring your concentration up and also PREPARE for it. It's clear the driver in the video did not anticipate the difficulty level of the next turn...

Mistake number 3: Leading him to be off line going into the first left hander of the Esses. At this time, it's the second to last mistake he can correct before the inevitable spin. Being offline for the first left, he jerked the steering wheel and early the right turn coming up...

Mistake number 4: At this point, he's committed. The way the Esses are constructed, you early the first turn, you will early the next and by the third turn of the Esses you'll be so out of shape there'll be little to no recover if you didn't already make the adjustment after the first turn. The spin was but the inevitable conclusion to a series of mistakes compounded upon each other in a very difficult section of the track on a track famous for its difficulties.
__________________
Quote:
No way I'd ever take my BMW to the track.
Quote:
Then why do you have $3,000 worth of suspension mods on your car?
Quote:
...
-Overheard at the last B****rfest.
Appreciate 0
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:34 PM.




m3post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST