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      12-04-2007, 04:15 PM   #1
Boshhaab
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Need some advice.. a special case of M3 vs C2S.

So basically, this is what the whole deal is about. Ive read through a couple of other posts, which highlight the fact that the C2S is more expensive than the M3 and has less of a performance. However, in my country (UAE), the Porsche C2S is currently cheaper than even a manual gearbox M3.

Personally, I have placed my order in for the DCT e92 M3 two months ago. From what I am understanding from my dealer, im 2nd on the list in Dubai. However, recently ive started considering the C2S. Ive been to another city in the UAE today (Abu Dhabi), where they already have the e92 M3 available, and asked them for a current price. They said that 6MT e92 M3 currently costs $99,800 USD. They also said that price is due to increase by around 5% in the next 2 months (normal annual price increase) Bringing it up to $103k USD. On top of that, the M-DCT gearbox (which would not arrive before June next year, possibly MUCH later) would cost a minimum of $4k USD, so im looking at a minimum price of $107k USD . I called the dealership in Dubai, and being the clueless idiots that they are, once again told me that they were oh-so-certain that the price wouldnt go above 97K USD (even though they dont have ANY e92 M3's available yet), and again they couldnt give me any better price estimate or any options list. So, id rather beleive the Abu Dhabi dealership on that one.

That made the Porsche dealership across the road suddenly look a little more appealing. So off I went, and asked about the C2S. They told me that there was an unbooked C2S coming at the end of this month, Carrara White with Red Interior, with the Porsche Aero Kit, Tiptronic S transmission, Sport chrono package, sport seats, nav module + phone kit, etc etc. Basically fully loaded... for a staggering $95k USD.

Now, im back to the M3 vs C2S thing. In all honesty, I am torn apart by these 2 cars. They are both INSANELY nice cars to have, and id happily live with either of them. Personally though, the M3 has won my heart. Ive always been a huge BMW fan, but one cant deny the fact that Porsche make superb cars. The C2S has so many +'s that its simply irresistible atm. I really do not want to regret my choice in a years time though, and this is what it all boils down to.

Ive tried to brainstorm some ideas off the top of my head on which one is better and why, and heres some of the things that I thought of:


e92 M3:
+ Very good performance car. (Great acceleration times!)
+ Superb V8 Engine with an AMAZING sound.
+ iDrive (v.good & functional electronic interface).
+ Comfortable, good every-day car.

- Seating position problems?
- Very modest/toned down styling?
- Not very impressive interior (compared to my current 630i at least).
- Not a very "status" car on the road?


Carrera S:
+ Great design & looks.
+ Excellent build quality.
+ Better driving experience?
+ Higher "status" on the road?

- Not as fast. (Not so impressive acceleration times)
- Very stiff suspension, with less comfortable seats than the M3.. not as good of an every-day car?
- Definitely loud but doesnt sound as good.


So, id like to hear some input if possible. I have 0 experience with Porsche cars and i havent really driven one much, but I am hearing great things about it, and how addictive it becomes once you get into one. However, the M3's 0-100 time simply owns it bigtime.. I mean, 5.3 seconds (on the porsche website at least) for a C2S really isnt THAT impressive, or is it actually much faster than that in teptronic? One of my closest friends (die-hard Porsche fan and a C2 owner) tells me that I simply cannot ever regret buying the Porsche. Its just a superb car that fascinates every day. I still prefer the M3, but with the history of first-generation SMG's, the insane pricing in the UAE, and the patheticly long waiting time ill have to endure.. im wondering if the C2S is the right choice after all.

Im also aware that Porsche are intending a facelift for the Carrera model? and possibly having the x51 power kit (381 bhp) as a standard? Im not sure of this information, and I havent seen anything official about it at all. When I asked the Porsche dealership, they said they were aware of a slight facelift, but werent aware of any engine power bumps. They also said it would arrive late next year, as late as November 08. Any info about that at all?

Sorry for the long post, but im going to make a big decision here and I wanna make sure its the right one, so im tryin to get all the feedback possible. Like I said, I would HATE regretting to buy 'the other car' in a years time.

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      12-04-2007, 04:36 PM   #2
devo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boshhaab View Post
So basically, this is what the whole deal is about. Ive read through a couple of other posts, which highlight the fact that the C2S is more expensive than the M3 and has less of a performance. However, in my country (UAE), the Porsche C2S is currently cheaper than even a manual gearbox M3.

Personally, I have placed my order in for the DCT e92 M3 two months ago. From what I am understanding from my dealer, im 2nd on the list in Dubai. However, recently ive started considering the C2S. Ive been to another city in the UAE today (Abu Dhabi), where they already have the e92 M3 available, and asked them for a current price. They said that 6MT e92 M3 currently costs $99,800 USD. They also said that price is due to increase by around 5% in the next 2 months (normal annual price increase) Bringing it up to $103k USD. On top of that, the M-DCT gearbox (which would not arrive before June next year, possibly MUCH later) would cost a minimum of $4k USD, so im looking at a minimum price of $107k USD . I called the dealership in Dubai, and being the clueless idiots that they are, once again told me that they were oh-so-certain that the price wouldnt go above 97K USD (even though they dont have ANY e92 M3's available yet), and again they couldnt give me any better price estimate or any options list. So, id rather beleive the Abu Dhabi dealership on that one.

That made the Porsche dealership across the road suddenly look a little more appealing. So off I went, and asked about the C2S. They told me that there was an unbooked C2S coming at the end of this month, Carrara White with Red Interior, with the Porsche Aero Kit, Tiptronic S transmission, Sport chrono package, sport seats, nav module + phone kit, etc etc. Basically fully loaded... for a staggering $95k USD.

Now, im back to the M3 vs C2S thing. In all honesty, I am torn apart by these 2 cars. They are both INSANELY nice cars to have, and id happily live with either of them. Personally though, the M3 has won my heart. Ive always been a huge BMW fan, but one cant deny the fact that Porsche make superb cars. The C2S has so many +'s that its simply irresistible atm. I really do not want to regret my choice in a years time though, and this is what it all boils down to.

Ive tried to brainstorm some ideas off the top of my head on which one is better and why, and heres some of the things that I thought of:


e92 M3:
+ Very good performance car. (Great acceleration times!)
+ Superb V8 Engine with an AMAZING sound.
+ iDrive (v.good & functional electronic interface).
+ Comfortable, good every-day car.

- Seating position problems?
- Very modest/toned down styling?
- Not very impressive interior (compared to my current 630i at least).
- Not a very "status" car on the road?


Carrera S:
+ Great design & looks.
+ Excellent build quality.
+ Better driving experience?
+ Higher "status" on the road?

- Not as fast. (Not so impressive acceleration times)
- Very stiff suspension, with less comfortable seats than the M3.. not as good of an every-day car?
- Definitely loud but doesnt sound as good.


So, id like to hear some input if possible. I have 0 experience with Porsche cars and i havent really driven one much, but I am hearing great things about it, and how addictive it becomes once you get into one. However, the M3's 0-100 time simply owns it bigtime.. I mean, 5.3 seconds (on the porsche website at least) for a C2S really isnt THAT impressive, or is it actually much faster than that in teptronic? One of my closest friends (die-hard Porsche fan and a C2 owner) tells me that I simply cannot ever regret buying the Porsche. Its just a superb car that fascinates every day. I still prefer the M3, but with the history of first-generation SMG's, the insane pricing in the UAE, and the patheticly long waiting time ill have to endure.. im wondering if the C2S is the right choice after all.

Im also aware that Porsche are intending a facelift for the Carrera model? and possibly having the x51 power kit (381 bhp) as a standard? Im not sure of this information, and I havent seen anything official about it at all. When I asked the Porsche dealership, they said they were aware of a slight facelift, but werent aware of any engine power bumps. They also said it would arrive late next year, as late as November 08. Any info about that at all?

Sorry for the long post, but im going to make a big decision here and I wanna make sure its the right one, so im tryin to get all the feedback possible. Like I said, I would HATE regretting to buy 'the other car' in a years time.

I will say that unless you really want an automatic, don't buy it. To me tiptronic is nothing but a really good auto box with the option of changing your own gears. BMW's M-DCT will be infinitely better than tip. Of course, Porsche is supposedly coming out with a DSG tranny, but that could be for the next model.

I have been involved in too many C2S vs. E9x M3 debates to get involved in another right now. There are countless threads about these two great cars. I will say that the 6 speed C2S is no slouch and doesn't have poor acceleration times.

Be sure to get the sport exhaust (PSE) if you do go 911, it's like heaven.
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      12-04-2007, 06:40 PM   #3
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^ Good post devo. I knew you would be first to reply!

My two cents are short and sweet as well. One of my principal arguments in favor of the M3 is based on price to performance ratio. The cars are in fact very close in most performance metrics. Have a look at the list on this page (or the latest master list in the same thread). It seems to me that you already understand the strengths and weaknesses of each car quite well. When the cars are so close in price, or maybe even slightly in favor of the Porsche in your country, the decision does become very tough. Even though both cars are quite capable both on the track and as a daily driver the 911 leans a bit more toward the side of the pure sports car for the track and the M3 a bit more toward the GT/very fast daily driver. I think the versatility, comfort, engine and DCT (not in that particular order) are the factors that still give the M3 a slight edge in my opinion, even at these prices.

Good post and best of luck on your difficult decision.
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      12-04-2007, 08:11 PM   #4
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What is the price difference for you guys?

Here in Australia you cannt really compare the two, M3 = $157,000 C2S = $225,000
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      12-04-2007, 08:17 PM   #5
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I would argue your opinion about each car's 'status class' on the road. The 911 is a very common design now, and nothing special to me when I see a basic one. They are everywhere in Texas, so the M3 would certainly be more of an event to see. In NY where I live any nicer car is more of a event so its possible that you may experience more status in a 911 here. But then again where I live in NY is totally gimped and worthless.

Dubai is one of the richest cities I think, and at least is certainly the largest growing with your new mega-huge skyscrape going up and all the money being poured into construction. So I would say the 911 would be fairly common there as well, and the M3 would give you more of a status if you get it early.

My other point is that the M3 would be a new car, and the C2S would be used. So that includes all the worries and discussion about previous owners and the feeling of driving a new car off the lot and breaking it in yourself.
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      12-04-2007, 08:39 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boshhaab View Post
So basically, this is what the whole deal is about. Ive read through a couple of other posts, which highlight the fact that the C2S is more expensive than the M3 and has less of a performance. However, in my country (UAE), the Porsche C2S is currently cheaper than even a manual gearbox M3.

Personally, I have placed my order in for the DCT e92 M3 two months ago. From what I am understanding from my dealer, im 2nd on the list in Dubai. However, recently ive started considering the C2S. Ive been to another city in the UAE today (Abu Dhabi), where they already have the e92 M3 available, and asked them for a current price. They said that 6MT e92 M3 currently costs $99,800 USD. They also said that price is due to increase by around 5% in the next 2 months (normal annual price increase) Bringing it up to $103k USD. On top of that, the M-DCT gearbox (which would not arrive before June next year, possibly MUCH later) would cost a minimum of $4k USD, so im looking at a minimum price of $107k USD . I called the dealership in Dubai, and being the clueless idiots that they are, once again told me that they were oh-so-certain that the price wouldnt go above 97K USD (even though they dont have ANY e92 M3's available yet), and again they couldnt give me any better price estimate or any options list. So, id rather beleive the Abu Dhabi dealership on that one.

That made the Porsche dealership across the road suddenly look a little more appealing. So off I went, and asked about the C2S. They told me that there was an unbooked C2S coming at the end of this month, Carrara White with Red Interior, with the Porsche Aero Kit, Tiptronic S transmission, Sport chrono package, sport seats, nav module + phone kit, etc etc. Basically fully loaded... for a staggering $95k USD.

Now, im back to the M3 vs C2S thing. In all honesty, I am torn apart by these 2 cars. They are both INSANELY nice cars to have, and id happily live with either of them. Personally though, the M3 has won my heart. Ive always been a huge BMW fan, but one cant deny the fact that Porsche make superb cars. The C2S has so many +'s that its simply irresistible atm. I really do not want to regret my choice in a years time though, and this is what it all boils down to.

Ive tried to brainstorm some ideas off the top of my head on which one is better and why, and heres some of the things that I thought of:


e92 M3:
+ Very good performance car. (Great acceleration times!)
+ Superb V8 Engine with an AMAZING sound.
+ iDrive (v.good & functional electronic interface).
+ Comfortable, good every-day car.

- Seating position problems?
- Very modest/toned down styling?
- Not very impressive interior (compared to my current 630i at least).
- Not a very "status" car on the road?


Carrera S:
+ Great design & looks.
+ Excellent build quality.
+ Better driving experience?
+ Higher "status" on the road?

- Not as fast. (Not so impressive acceleration times)
- Very stiff suspension, with less comfortable seats than the M3.. not as good of an every-day car?
- Definitely loud but doesnt sound as good.


So, id like to hear some input if possible. I have 0 experience with Porsche cars and i havent really driven one much, but I am hearing great things about it, and how addictive it becomes once you get into one. However, the M3's 0-100 time simply owns it bigtime.. I mean, 5.3 seconds (on the porsche website at least) for a C2S really isnt THAT impressive, or is it actually much faster than that in teptronic? One of my closest friends (die-hard Porsche fan and a C2 owner) tells me that I simply cannot ever regret buying the Porsche. Its just a superb car that fascinates every day. I still prefer the M3, but with the history of first-generation SMG's, the insane pricing in the UAE, and the patheticly long waiting time ill have to endure.. im wondering if the C2S is the right choice after all.

Im also aware that Porsche are intending a facelift for the Carrera model? and possibly having the x51 power kit (381 bhp) as a standard? Im not sure of this information, and I havent seen anything official about it at all. When I asked the Porsche dealership, they said they were aware of a slight facelift, but werent aware of any engine power bumps. They also said it would arrive late next year, as late as November 08. Any info about that at all?

Sorry for the long post, but im going to make a big decision here and I wanna make sure its the right one, so im tryin to get all the feedback possible. Like I said, I would HATE regretting to buy 'the other car' in a years time.


If you don't mind the size and the stiffer ride, easy, C2s. Much more engaging drive and it is still a pretty good daily (especially with PASM) in the grand scheme of things. Many in the US would never think twice if the pricing was similar here. I sure as hell know I wouldn't.

-Adam
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      12-04-2007, 08:43 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by UltimateBMW View Post
My other point is that the M3 would be a new car, and the C2S would be used. So that includes all the worries and discussion about previous owners and the feeling of driving a new car off the lot and breaking it in yourself.
He is talking about getting a NEW C2s for LESS money than the M3.

-Adam
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      12-05-2007, 01:26 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UltimateBMW View Post
I would argue your opinion about each car's 'status class' on the road.
It is hard to argue with his perception/opinion of status or class when he lives there and you don't!
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      12-05-2007, 08:09 AM   #9
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I have just returned from a week long business trip in Dubai and i have to say that the M3 would stand out there more than a porsche.

If it's status you want go with the M3 it is by far more original in Dubai than a 911.

i looked and drove both these cars before i made my mind up. The 911 was nice but it didnt justify the premium price and to be honest looks wise didnt float my boat as much as the M3.

Last edited by Ray33; 12-05-2007 at 11:41 AM.
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      12-05-2007, 08:19 AM   #10
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I have just returned from a week long business trip in Dubai and i have to say that the M3 would stand out there more than a porsche.

There is a strong BMW vibe in the city (from what i noticed in my limited time there). I saw one guy (on a three digit plate) with a white M6 parked up with a "Mafia" plate stuck behind his windscreen. A joke i presume but it looked fantastic. BMW gives a more menancing vibe than a porsche every time. If it's status you want go with the M3 it is by far more original than a 911.

i looked and drove both these cars before i made my mind up. The 911 was nice but it didnt justify the premium price and to be honest looks wise didnt float my boat as much as the M3.
but 911 turbo= pure sex
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      12-05-2007, 11:16 AM   #11
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but 911 turbo= pure sex
Yes it is
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      12-05-2007, 11:17 AM   #12
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BMW gives a more menancing vibe than a porsche every time. If it's status you want go with the M3 it is by far more original than a 911. (Quote)







?
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      12-05-2007, 11:42 AM   #13
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but 911 turbo= pure sex
He's not looking at a 911 turbo. Its a bog standard C2S - totally different car!
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      12-05-2007, 12:50 PM   #14
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i've tried both, and have made my choice : i will receive the M3 next month.

But i wasn't in the same conditions as you, because the porsche was 20% more expensive that the M3.

What have decided my choice was the 3 following things :

- i'm planning to have a baby, so i need 'some' space.
- a lifting is already foreseen in autumn 2008 for the Porsche (with a power increase), and i don't want to have a old model.
- and of course the price gap.

my best advice: try them !
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      12-05-2007, 07:29 PM   #15
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I would recommend the M3 over the C2S as a daily driver. Just an example, the used M3's here in Mexico always show a lot of miles while the Porsche's are sold with less than 10,000 Kms. generally speaking of course.
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