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      03-30-2015, 12:35 PM   #1
BlackPhoenix
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E93 VT2-625 6MT: Defiv Lockdown kit? Users please chime in

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Hey y'all,

I recently had my VT2-625 kit installed and aside from the pretty engine bay, my car has completely transformed! Absolutely loving the kit. I've definitely made some passengers scream with the top off lol.

Other than a custom AST coilover kit with 600/800lb springs and 295 PSS tires in the back, I'm looking to stabilize the rear end on launches. I recently purchased a Defiv lockdown kit from a forum member and am still debating installing it. From what I have read, this mod seems to have minimal diff whine, but I've read elsewhere that others have noticed it. Since I have a vert, I'd expect any extra diff whine to be present (if it isn't drowned out by the S65/blower or the IPE).

The kit I purchased was missing the bushings - what size/kind are they and do they have to be obtained from Defiv? I have emailed them several times and haven't gotten a reply. And apparently there are some subtle installation differences between the E92 and E93 - anybody have the details?

I'd like to see if other Defiv users have any other experience with this.

Thanks!
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      03-30-2015, 01:02 PM   #2
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If I were you I'd do Solid Subframe bushings. I just supercharged my E93 and that's the route I'm going with.
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      03-30-2015, 01:21 PM   #3
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BP - I don't have any experience with the Defiv diff brace but I did ask Malek from MRF to suggest a solution for the nasty wheel hop I was experience with my car. He recommended solid sub-frame bushings and Delrin diff bushings as the best solution. I asked about the poly diff bushings but he said the Delrin bushings were just a bit louder but performed much better so I went that route. I will be installing in a few weeks and will provide my feedback if you'd like to wait on the Defiv install...
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      03-30-2015, 01:56 PM   #4
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Thanks WickedE93 and 81Bear,

I was thinking along the lines of subframe bushings too but just really want the most quiet option out there. I'd love to hear y'all's experience with those options as well.
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      03-30-2015, 02:54 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackPhoenix View Post
Thanks WickedE93 and 81Bear,

I was thinking along the lines of subframe bushings too but just really want the most quiet option out there. I'd love to hear y'all's experience with those options as well.
I have the MRF subframe/Turner delrin bushings. Where in TX are you? I can give you a ride if you're nearby. Drop me a PM. I could hear a very, very slight diff whine when I had a stock exhaust. Now, I don't hear anything, and my exhaust isn't loud at all (unless I want it to be).

Additionally, you might be interested in this thread http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1083365
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      03-30-2015, 03:48 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whats77inaname View Post
I have the MRF subframe/Turner delrin bushings. Where in TX are you? I can give you a ride if you're nearby. Drop me a PM. I could hear a very, very slight diff whine when I had a stock exhaust. Now, I don't hear anything, and my exhaust isn't loud at all (unless I want it to be).

Additionally, you might be interested in this thread http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1083365
I wish I lived in Texas! That's the exact setup I'm getting installed... I hope my exhaust will drowned out the diff whine...
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      03-30-2015, 03:49 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackPhoenix View Post
Thanks WickedE93 and 81Bear,

I was thinking along the lines of subframe bushings too but just really want the most quiet option out there. I'd love to hear y'all's experience with those options as well.
Everything I've read says the additional noise is a result of the diff bushings not the subframe bushings.
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      03-30-2015, 04:20 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 81bear
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackPhoenix View Post
Thanks WickedE93 and 81Bear,

I was thinking along the lines of subframe bushings too but just really want the most quiet option out there. I'd love to hear y'all's experience with those options as well.
Everything I've read says the additional noise is a result of the diff bushings not the subframe bushings.
+1

I have the solid subframe bushings and don't really notice any additional noise.

OP: Love the paint job on the manifold, looks great!
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      03-30-2015, 04:36 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whats77inaname
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackPhoenix View Post
Thanks WickedE93 and 81Bear,

I was thinking along the lines of subframe bushings too but just really want the most quiet option out there. I'd love to hear y'all's experience with those options as well.
I have the MRF subframe/Turner delrin bushings. Where in TX are you? I can give you a ride if you're nearby. Drop me a PM. I could hear a very, very slight diff whine when I had a stock exhaust. Now, I don't hear anything, and my exhaust isn't loud at all (unless I want it to be).

Additionally, you might be interested in this thread http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1083365
Thanks man,

I'm in Dallas. Was trying to make it to MFest a while back but alas... I had prior engagements. PM'd!
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      03-30-2015, 04:39 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Benvo
Quote:
Originally Posted by 81bear
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackPhoenix View Post
Thanks WickedE93 and 81Bear,

I was thinking along the lines of subframe bushings too but just really want the most quiet option out there. I'd love to hear y'all's experience with those options as well.
Everything I've read says the additional noise is a result of the diff bushings not the subframe bushings.
+1

I have the solid subframe bushings and don't really notice any additional noise.

OP: Love the paint job on the manifold, looks great!
Thanks Mike, saw a similar-designed manifold on the forums and thought it would be perfect to match my murdered out M.

Was thinking that route as well as I heard it's the most effective...

I'll hit you up if I decided to pull the trigger on that supercharger tune. Missing the extra options...
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      03-30-2015, 05:00 PM   #11
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Since we are on the subject of bushings, for the convertibles (particularly supercharged verts), does the convertibles' reinforced framing resolve some of the bushings issue for additional support or do you have the same concerns in having to reinforce the subframe over time?
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      03-30-2015, 07:40 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MiamiE93Vert View Post
Since we are on the subject of bushings, for the convertibles (particularly supercharged verts), does the convertibles' reinforced framing resolve some of the bushings issue for additional support or do you have the same concerns in having to reinforce the subframe over time?
Have done many E93's with solid bushings. The sub-frames are the same and the same improvements can be found. On the verts there is also the slight extra benefit of added chassis rigidity more than the coupes and sedans. The unitized axle carrier acts as a stiff chassis brace when equipped with solid bushings. A bulk of the new F8x vehicles chassis stiffness is a result of the unitized sub-frame.
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      03-30-2015, 07:53 PM   #13
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Where you located ???
I want to get one of these kits installed as well I just don't know where to go
I'm near Toronto Ontario
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      03-30-2015, 09:15 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 81bear View Post
I wish I lived in Texas! That's the exact setup I'm getting installed... I hope my exhaust will drowned out the diff whine...
Trust me...if you get an aftermarket exhaust, or even the OEM exhaust mod, the additional noise will overcome the diff noise w/ease.
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      03-31-2015, 09:32 AM   #15
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I am cross linking the thread below with this one since there is some good info in both for those who may be looking in the future.

http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1040389

I am still on the fence about how stiff I want to go. My main concern is the one that led to the Defi brace -- broken diff mounts. I don't just want stiffer or solid subframe bushings for better handling. If the diff moves too much within the subframe the diff mounts can break and the subframe can be damaged.
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      03-31-2015, 11:25 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pbonsalb View Post
I am cross linking the thread below with this one since there is some good info in both for those who may be looking in the future.

http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1040389

I am still on the fence about how stiff I want to go. My main concern is the one that led to the Defi brace -- broken diff mounts. I don't just want stiffer or solid subframe bushings for better handling. If the diff moves too much within the subframe the diff mounts can break and the subframe can be damaged.
This also relates to my question as well regarding the E93's (thank you for the reply Malek). The convertible, versus the coupe or sedan, has extra bracing in stock form for when the top is down. Does this extra bracing help prevent the threat of subframe damage? Or, does the top down, despite (or as a result of) more bracing, actually create more flex to the bushings? At some point in the future I am considering a supercharger but also considering the potential upgrades I may need to add to accommodate and balance the additional power (i.e., bushings, rod bearings, wider wheels/tires, etc.)
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      03-31-2015, 11:44 AM   #17
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Thanks Malek,

I am considering solid subframe bushings in addition to the defiv versus a mild durometer diff bushings.

I was wondering whether the solid subframe bushings would help the additional bracing in the E93. Thanks for the info!
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      03-31-2015, 11:46 AM   #18
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Solid rear diff mounts do the most good, but also will cause the most NHV. Even with my SC and loud exhaust you still hear it, but it does put the power down WAY better and of course gets rid of pesky rear diff bolts snapping.
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      03-31-2015, 01:44 PM   #19
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Solid rear diff mounts do the most good, but also will cause the most NHV. Even with my SC and loud exhaust you still hear it, but it does put the power down WAY better and of course gets rid of pesky rear diff bolts snapping.
The right tires do a lot of help with traction from my experience, but I'm really interested in doing the MRF diff mounts to further help with off-the-line (WOT) traction and to prevent the tires from blowing off top of 2nd and 3rd.

Did you do a review after the install? And what tires are you running may I ask? Thx.
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      03-31-2015, 01:56 PM   #20
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Solid diff and subframe bushings here. Truth, the diff whine is a subjective item. With the windows down, music on, or when getting on the gas, the whine is difficult to detect. Windows up cruising and the whine is present but I do not notice it anymore, and to be honest, I sort of like it. If your the type of guy/gal that likes exhaust and engine noise, you will probably like the whine.
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      03-31-2015, 02:25 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pbonsalb View Post
I am cross linking the thread below with this one since there is some good info in both for those who may be looking in the future.

http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1040389

I am still on the fence about how stiff I want to go. My main concern is the one that led to the Defi brace -- broken diff mounts. I don't just want stiffer or solid subframe bushings for better handling. If the diff moves too much within the subframe the diff mounts can break and the subframe can be damaged.
The Defiv brace works in a similar fashion as Delrin or solid differential mounts, but in a completely different way. It unitizes the differential to the subframe, but it also does it from the weakest point on the differential, the soft aluminum cover. If anything harder than delrin is installed for the rear carrier mount, you run a large risk of cracking and breaking the rear cover. The lower differential cover bolts and housing are not meant to take load, and the brace kit places the load on exactly that part. It also creates whine just as much as solid differential mounts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackPhoenix View Post
Thanks Malek,

I am considering solid subframe bushings in addition to the defiv versus a mild durometer diff bushings.

I was wondering whether the solid subframe bushings would help the additional bracing in the E93. Thanks for the info!
The solid sub-frame bushings will further tighten the chassis of the vehicle as the unitization of the axle carrier braces the rear unibody. With rubber or polyurethane bushings, this is not possible. There is zero reason to go with anything but solid sub-frame bushings as there is no increase in NVH from those components. The differential mounts don't increase vibration or harshness, they add a little bit of noise in the form of gear whine. In most cases, the whine is not that noticeable, especially if you have an exhaust system. In some cars, the whine seems to be louder, but I have also found that different differential fluid creates additional whine.

A couple forum members know this already, but I am working on a damper isolator kit that should reduce the differential whine.
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      03-31-2015, 03:02 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Longboarder View Post
The right tires do a lot of help with traction from my experience, but I'm really interested in doing the MRF diff mounts to further help with off-the-line (WOT) traction and to prevent the tires from blowing off top of 2nd and 3rd.

Did you do a review after the install? And what tires are you running may I ask? Thx.
I did not do a full review, I had it done in the first place because I snapped a rear diff bolt due to the squishy OEM bushings that cause so much movement/wheel hop.
After I had it done the wheel hop was gone period, car put down power much better and overall felt far more solid/planted. Only downside is the slight diff whine, which you do become use to untill someone gets in car and goes... hey whats that noise?
After I put on the ESS 625 kit I switched over to Falken AZENIS RT-615K 275/35/18 front and 315/30/18 rear.
I only spin in first and 2nd when I really punch it but car digs in, 3rd is rock solid. DSC off of course.
I did a rough exhaust video,at 3:30 when I get on the HWY I punch it pretty good with DSC off, as you can see I dont break loose very bad.
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