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      12-06-2007, 04:55 PM   #155
chitown08
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lucid View Post
The world is divided into two classes of people: the ones who understand you and the ones who don't. Actually, maybe there is another distinction: the ones who understand "pride", and the ones who don't. It's all that simple! One can explain/dismiss "pride" the same one can explain/dismiss "fun". They are both constructs. There is no objective anchor in any of this, and you keep on trying to convince yourself that there is, that pride is some kind of fundamental primitive of the universe whereas fun is not. I've said what I had to say, and am not responding to the specific points because we've crossed that threshold where these types of debates are not a good use of anyone's time. So, you can have the last word.

But remember, people, or shall we call them squares, who are constantly driven by --consciously or not-- accomplishment/challenge/pride are usually not liked by others because they just don't know how to have FUN!
People who are driven by pride are usually not liked by others?!

And you're telling me I'M making subjective claims?

Being well-liked is probably the BIGGEST source of human PRIDE for the majority of the world!

The desire to be popular and well-liked is specifically CAUSED by the desire to feel pride. The pride that is associated with being well-liked. And those who seek pride the most and measure it by popularity are often the most successful at getting people to LIKE them! Are you joking?

And are you seriously trying to tell me that my argument is no stronger than yours because 'fun' is just as good of a motivation to do something as 'pride?'

Need I explain why 'pride' is evolutionarily advantageous whereas 'fun' is absolutely worthless.

I wonder how long homo rudolfensis would have survived had he been motivated by fun? You act like humans evolved by our affinity for fun! Again, are you joking?

Now lets imagine the advantages of being motivated by pride. Pride results from conquering challenges. Hmm. I wonder how overcoming challenges in the wild relates to natural selection.... Oh yeah, I know: The more challenges which are defeated = the better chance of survival! And guess what happens when we overcome challenges... we feel pride!

Shockingly, all the pieces fall into place, and the unconscious motivation to feel PRIDE makes perfect sense from a natural selection/evolutionary perspective. And lets not forget how useful popularity can be from a survivalist perspective either just to put the cherry on top.

Now lets hear the reason 'fun' would have evolved in human nature. Oh yeah, there isn't one. Unless you define 'fun' as 'that which causes PRIDE.' In which case its PRIDE again. You wanna dismiss this as a construct? Do you not believe in evolution or something?

And lets ignore that 'fun' is a feeling that only arises as a consequence of other feelings. AKA pride resulting from the defeat of challenges. You seriously haven't realized that what you interpret as 'fun' is that which gives you pride and self-respect. Sudoku? Fun? What in the hell would be fun about Sudoku if it wasn't the challenge and the resulting pride? I can't believe you are trying to maintain that putting numbers in a grid is 'inherently fun' or that rowing gears is 'inherently fun.' Its only fun cuz of the PRIDE. How many times do we have to hear people describe things as 'fun' and then when you ask them why, it begins to boil down to the 'challenge.' Or the competition. Jobs that are described as 'fun' typically involve CHALLENGING decision making, CHALLENGING manual labor, CHALLENGING unpredictability. It always boils down to a deeply rooted affinity for CHALLENGES. Last time I checked, the WORLDS favorite pastime is 'sport.' And last time I checked, the whole idea of 'sport' revolves around COMPETITION/CHALLENGE and the goal is to win. And guess what we feel when we win? PRIDE!

Now, let's make analyze the inherent human drive of 'fun'. .... ... ... ...

Moving on:

So your main point is that you haven't thought about this unfortunate hurdle to your 'argument,' if you can call it that.

There is nothing more pathetic than dismissing someone's argument in favor of the lack of an argument.

If you think this is harsh, ask me if I care. And then go re-read the implicit sarcasm directed at me scattered throughout your last post.

I don't have a problem with ignorance. But your PROUD, rude ignorance is sickening to me.

Notice I research/consider your points out of respect. I rebut them based on reason.
You, on the other hand, do not consider my points, do not respect my opinion, and pass judgement based on the very absence of reason.

You: "Fun is just fun, I don't need a reason"

You're right. All hail ignorance.
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      12-06-2007, 06:40 PM   #156
Ray33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chitown08 View Post
People who are driven by pride are usually not liked by others?!

And you're telling me I'M making subjective claims?

Being well-liked is probably the BIGGEST source of human PRIDE for the majority of the world!

The desire to be popular and well-liked is specifically CAUSED by the desire to feel pride. The pride that is associated with being well-liked. And those who seek pride the most and measure it by popularity are often the most successful at getting people to LIKE them! Are you joking?

And are you seriously trying to tell me that my argument is no stronger than yours because 'fun' is just as good of a motivation to do something as 'pride?'

Need I explain why 'pride' is evolutionarily advantageous whereas 'fun' is absolutely worthless.

I wonder how long homo rudolfensis would have survived had he been motivated by fun? You act like humans evolved by our affinity for fun! Again, are you joking?

Now lets imagine the advantages of being motivated by pride. Pride results from conquering challenges. Hmm. I wonder how overcoming challenges in the wild relates to natural selection.... Oh yeah, I know: The more challenges which are defeated = the better chance of survival! And guess what happens when we overcome challenges... we feel pride!

Shockingly, all the pieces fall into place, and the unconscious motivation to feel PRIDE makes perfect sense from a natural selection/evolutionary perspective. And lets not forget how useful popularity can be from a survivalist perspective either just to put the cherry on top.

Now lets hear the reason 'fun' would have evolved in human nature. Oh yeah, there isn't one. Unless you define 'fun' as 'that which causes PRIDE.' In which case its PRIDE again. You wanna dismiss this as a construct? Do you not believe in evolution or something?

And lets ignore that 'fun' is a feeling that only arises as a consequence of other feelings. AKA pride resulting from the defeat of challenges. You seriously haven't realized that what you interpret as 'fun' is that which gives you pride and self-respect. Sudoku? Fun? What in the hell would be fun about Sudoku if it wasn't the challenge and the resulting pride? I can't believe you are trying to maintain that putting numbers in a grid is 'inherently fun' or that rowing gears is 'inherently fun.' Its only fun cuz of the PRIDE. How many times do we have to hear people describe things as 'fun' and then when you ask them why, it begins to boil down to the 'challenge.' Or the competition. Jobs that are described as 'fun' typically involve CHALLENGING decision making, CHALLENGING manual labor, CHALLENGING unpredictability. It always boils down to a deeply rooted affinity for CHALLENGES. Last time I checked, the WORLDS favorite pastime is 'sport.' And last time I checked, the whole idea of 'sport' revolves around COMPETITION/CHALLENGE and the goal is to win. And guess what we feel when we win? PRIDE!

Now, let's make analyze the inherent human drive of 'fun'. .... ... ... ...

Moving on:

So your main point is that you haven't thought about this unfortunate hurdle to your 'argument,' if you can call it that.

There is nothing more pathetic than dismissing someone's argument in favor of the lack of an argument.

If you think this is harsh, ask me if I care. And then go re-read the implicit sarcasm directed at me scattered throughout your last post.

I don't have a problem with ignorance. But your PROUD, rude ignorance is sickening to me.

Notice I research/consider your points out of respect. I rebut them based on reason.
You, on the other hand, do not consider my points, do not respect my opinion, and pass judgement based on the very absence of reason.

You: "Fun is just fun, I don't need a reason"

You're right. All hail ignorance.
I have been drinking quite heavily now and havent really read what this guy is talking about...but i have scanned it and what a load of bollocks, philosophy 101 is four doors down on the right, this is a car forum!!!!
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      12-06-2007, 07:05 PM   #157
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ray33 View Post
I have been drinking quite heavily now and havent really read what this guy is talking about...but i have scanned it and what a load of bollocks, philosophy 101 is four doors down on the right, this is a car forum!!!!
+1
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